People are people ~ some are good, some are not ~ some are wealthy, some are poor ~ some are healthy, some are ill ~ but in my own mind, there are basic "human rights" that I personally see as equally valid and important if not more so than Constitutional rights ~ many years ago, Eleanor Roosevelt [one of my personal heroes] was a force in creating the Bill of Human Rights, which made a huge impact on me ~ I'm sure I have a copy saved somewhere and will look for it after I post this ~ but today we're seeing a lot of mostly rabid-righties/religiosos claim some "rights" for themselves while denying what I view as basic human rights for everyone ~ those "basic human rights" may not be specifically identified in our Constitution but they are very real ~ I include:

* health care
* public education
* food
* shelter
* respect/dignity, no matter the circumstances

I'm sure I've left some off my list ~ hopefully, some of you will add to my list ~ what do YOU see as "basic human rights?"

Sooz

I think you have the right to be wanted by and born into a loving caring family (not necessarily the right to be born), the right to be fed and nurtured, the right to be loved and respected and supported in your growth and development. If someone is going to create you and bring you into this world,they have an obligation to provide you with the aforementioned.

I can't really think about rights in the absence of obligations. If you have a right to something, then someone has an obligation to provide it. so, who? and in what circumstances? If you are born into a rural farming village in equatorial Africa do you really have a right to public education? where will you get it? who will provide it? Or health care- would you have a right to treatment in the best hospitals of the world or simply a right to access what is available to the people in your village?

In America I think that the "rights" you describe are part of a contract where society has agreed to provide those things because it benefits all to have everyone educated and healthy. But there is a quid pro quo. We expect there to be less crime, more workers available and benefits to society from providing for those needs. I think we are hard wired to provide for the proliferation of the species and that makes us want to help others less fortunate. However we are also hardwired for the fittest of the species to survive, if you believe the rest of Darwin's theories. And there you have the basis for the studies of the philosophy of man. Big question, sooz.

At the time I posted the op, my mind was basically on North America specifically and on industrialized nations generally ~ but your comments expanding that view are well made, queenie ~ and I think some of your comments would include some of our more rural areas as well ~ but even if narrowed down to my own view, it's still a BIG question ~

I just don't understand how the GOP/TP [you know: those uber religious and moral people] here are so willing/anxious to toss the needy and the elderly under the bus ~

Sooz

Think green, as in green backs, bucks, Dollars. As Jezass already said: "Amass lots of money for your selfish self and you're on the golden road through the pearly gate to Heaven!" or something similar.

I like your list.

Tomorrow there's a kid coming to spend some community service time with me. I met him and his mother last Sunday. They're homeless, living in a social services-supplied hotel room, Dad's in jail long-term, mom works at Target. She has to take her littler kids to work with her (she starts at 4:00 AM), and they stay in the car while she works (at least the first part of her shift, I didn't quite understand what she said). She's a member of the working poor. The jail chaplain has undertaken to help in whatever way he can, and asked if the boy could work off some community service time with me. He got dinged for some juvenile misbehavior or other. I can't get out of my mind the image of those kids in the car in the Target parking lot.

I'm sure in Romney/Ryan's plan is no place for social services-supplied hotel rooms.
She still owns a car? Pure luxury! Away with the food stamps! Leeches and moochers the whole lot!

God help us! Send your donations to The 700 Club. Large bills only.

This is a perfect example of how our current system just makes things worse and worse. This family has endless obstacles thrown at them.

She has to take her littler kids to work with her (she starts at 4:00 AM), and they stay in the car while she works (at least the first part of her shift, I didn't quite understand what she said).

Good God. Don't you have subsidised day care there? What would happen if she didn't have a car? I can't imagine how much stress this poor woman must be under and I'm sure there are lots of people living this way. For the life of me I'll never understand why people are opposed to publicly funded social programs and health care. This is (imo) why the U.S. is going down the toilet. You just can't build a nation on the 'me' principle and for those who argue that the U.S. is 'the most generous nation on earth' perhaps it's time to consider that charity begins at home.

they are only generous when they FEEL like it, which is why we have social programs paid by tax dollars.. because most of the time ppl do not FEEL like giving.

Less money funding other countries with weapons, less money bailing out CEOs and more money towards social programs might be a place to start. I don't think things are working super well right now.

The opening of one of my MSW papers.

Everyone has the Right
to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) is the milestone document in the history of human rights. It was drafted by representatives of different legal and cultural backgrounds from all regions of the world. The Declaration was proclaimed by the United Nations General Assembly in Paris on December 10, 1948 General Assembly resolution 217 A (III) as a common standard of achievements for all peoples and all nations. It set out, for the first time, fundamental human rights to be universally protected.

I really dislike a lot of "rights" talk, basically because it tends to draw on the notions of "natural rights" like the ones expressed in the Declaration of Independence. I simply don't believe those kind of "rights" actually exist. The "rights" we do have are specific to our times and our cultures. They are political and legal rights, not things that just exist. That means they have to be fought for, defended and justified. If they are seen as somehow just there then you can pretty much claim anything you like as a "right". The much touted "right to bear arms" is a good example, but there are plenty of others.

Having said that I'd agree that the things Sooz and Kathy list are things to aim for in any civilised society, but as Queen pointed out, what can be achieved in a particular society is vital to the whole issue. But the lists already mentioned are[u] achievable in developed societies and the fact thet are not achieved is an inditement of those societies and an indication of their lack of humanity(in the sense of [u]humane).

But never forget that these are things to aim for, not something inherent in the world, otherwise you can end up with claims about rights that don't make any sense at all.

Sorry Chaos, but your T-shirt slogan - "Every inhabitant of the planet Earth deserves the right to live in peace and harmony...in a clean, unspoiled environment....free from merciless exploitation or extinction." is one of those. Does it apply to the smallpox bacillus? What about the dinosaurs? And I think you'd have difficulty convincing a lion chasing a zebra of its validity.

The most basic human right: life.

The kid turned out to be a heck of a worker.

I didn't have to try all that hard Chaos . Its one of those warm and fuzzy sayings that really don't make any sense when you actually think about them.

I'm all in favour of clean air and water as well and I think we should have them. I'm not sure how saying we have a 'right" to them actually says any more than that. That's the problem I have with "rights" language. Is it any more than just an emphasis?

I would start with that, and then add a few things. Everyone has the right to control what happens to their own bodies, including control and choice regarding reproduction. Everyone has the right to be secure in their bodies and body space, and to refuse unwanted sexual contact of any kind.

I would also add a few rights specifically for children. The right to go to school. The right to not have to work at jobs until their bodies and minds are mature enough--the right to have time to play and develop.

My attempt at rights definitions:

I think there are different kinds of rights. All rights need the cooperation of a cooperative society to be enforced, by definition. It's why i think the "right to protection from government interference" is an oxymoron.

Personal/physical rights:--I think these are rights that can be granted fairly easily and cost effectively by governments. They don't cost anything (other than enforcement), you just have to convince people not to break each other's rights, and define the line where one person's rights end and another's begin. These kinds of rights include:

personal safety from each other--you have the right not to be beaten/assaulted by your spouse, parent, teacher, health care provider, adult child, random guy on the street that thinks you're driving too slowly, etc. Your right to swing your arm around ends where my body begins. Same goes for your dick--everyone has the right to be protected from unwanted sexual contact.

The right to personal freedom--the right to not be kidnapped, the right to not be imprisioned without cause or legal representation, the right to not be controlled by a spouse or lover (i.e. you can't tell your wife when or if she can leave the house, or what she should be wearing when she does), the right to not be confined by an employer (locked in a building or chained to a work station, etc.)

The right to choose who you associate with, talk to, organize a group with...etc. If i want to join the communist party, labour union, green peace, aunt bea's weekly tea, quilting and s and m club, you have to fuck off and let me. You don't get to fire me or boot me out of a neighbourhood because i slept with a black guy or talked to that lovely lady who thinks the telephone pole is her dead grandma.

The right to do what i want with my own free time as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's rights. You don't get to fire me because i like topless beaches or post a picture of myself legally drinking on facebook.

You have the right to free speech--you have the right to spout whatever drivel comes into your empty vacuous head as long as it doesn't impinge on anyone else's right to not be defamed or beaten up, and does not pass off either crap you made up as fact or someone else's vacuous crap as your vacuous crap. So, the line is where you can jump up and down about how you think homosexuality is unhealthy, wrong, causes acne and effeminate dressing, etc. you cannot tell people to go out and kill beat up pour ketchup on gay people. and you cannot go around saying it's scientifically proven that homosexuality causes aids because it aint true.

personal/belief/political rights:--

you have the right to hold whatever fucked up religious beliefs appeal to you at the moment. If you want to spend halloween in the pumpkin patch praying to the great pumpkin, i have to let you. But you can't make me come with you, even if i'm your wife or daughter, and you can't teach it to my kids in public school (or anywhere else without my consent). You can even leave gideon's bible in motel rooms (as long as it's ok with the hotel, and you don't fret too much if i wipe up my kid's koolaid spill with it.)

we have the right to participate in choosing the people who will form the governing bodies of our collective societies (god help us). we have the right to vote and discuss our political beliefs both with the like minded and all those stupid people out there that disagree with me. You just don't have the right to do it at my mom's dinner parties or she'll make you do dishes.

Economic rights--this is where our society falls down, i think. we don't really consider anything to do with economics to be rights. we don't accept economic refugees from other countries, for instance. but i think the following are rights that we should be working on granting for the whole world.

the right to have enough healthy food and water and air.
the right to health care as defined as life saving and prolonging procedures, and procedures to limit pain and improve quality of life to the best of our technological and knowledgable abilities. quality of life would need to be defined and redefined regularily. does plastic surgery improve the quality of life? what about for burn victims or the transgendered?
the right to an education.
the right to earn money and spend at least a portion of it as you see fit (i.e. after you have paid your share of the taxes that run the collective societies you belong to and participate in).
the right to leave a job and get a new one if you want.
the right to negotiate for better wages and conditions, and discuss this with your cooworkers.
the right to be protected from discrimination in the workforce.
the right to have all your other rights protected while in the place of employment.

Terrific post, greeny! ~ ~ as queenie said early on, this IS a big question ~ and as Cattleman said, personal "rights" create/carry responsibilities on both ourselves and on others ~

I'm going to bump up our recent "morality" thread too ~ these are really good discussions ~

Sooz