You see, Sammy, folks like WWIIwarrior have earned my respect even though he disagrees with my point of view on Afghanistan and agrees with yours. He hasn't used his status as a vet to try to denigrate those with whom he disagrees as you have done.

You see, oskar, if you feel denigrated it's from guilt not from me. You sit there knowing nothing about what the kids are going through and you cheer on the death and maiming. You want it to continue on and on and on. You should feel guilt to have so little feelings for the horror they're experiencing. I find it interesting that the 2 people rabidly saying stay stay die die are 2 who have no service, much less combat experience while the people who do have combat experience are the ones against us staying. There are others here who disagree with me but they are not so rabid. They think about what they are sending these kids off to do and experience. They care. You don't and I've seen no sign that your buddy does.

I'm glad you respect WWII. Everyone should.

You should also feel guilt for your outrageous denial. Instead of saying oops, you go on a trip.. You crack me up.

Sure, hero. LMAO
Keep right on wiggling.

Ha. Would someone who cares please help oskar. This is the guy that was whining a couple of days ago because I called him wimpy. I rest my case.

Name calling, again. And you still don't get why I have respect for WWII and not much for you.

And you don't get why I couldn't care less what you think of me.

So it's ok to insult people but just don't call them names eh? Ha. You are so funny.

The respect-o-meter is sinking constantly.

Oh and I do understand why you respect WWII and you don't respect me. Glad you respect him. Don't care that you don't respect me.

I do hope everyone reads the article Hippy posted in #62 and the link I posted

http://www.malalaijoya.com/index1024.htm

Malai Joya is an amazing woman. She may not live long, but she will live the rest of her life as a hero and die as one. I think it's important for us to read her words as we decide whether or not to stay in Afghanistan. Of course, it's kind of a moot point and we will stay regardless of what she thinks or people like me think.

Thack
I did agree with our Country going in to Afghan, but to only eliminate the terrorists with their help... Over the past 6 years, I now think it was a huge mistake, and we need to get out now, and admit our mistake...

I'm afraid as a member of NATO, the US is rather stuck in Afghanistan... unless you are willing to violate yet another treaty wcich puts you right back into the Bush league.

I agree, WWII.

Stuck until when?

Nation building is a fool's errand. We should never engage in it as we have in Afghanistan and Iraq. We would be better served to leave but American pride won't allow it.

It will take thousands more deaths to convince us to leave.

Nation building is a crucial part of any conflict, it allows the victor to leave the arena with as few grievances & blowback as possible. If there had been a Marshal plan instead of the punitive Versais Treaty after WW1 there probably wouldn't have been a WW2.

Quiver, last I heard, Obama has committed us to 5 more years in Afghanistan. I don't know about the other countries.

If we had stopped Germany when they started rebuilding their military, there wouldn't have been a WWII.

I don't agree with this. Countries that have had despotic leadership have rarely been changed thru nation building. Those, such as Afghanistan, who have a spotty record of government in general, aren't going to suddenly move into the modern world, regardless of how much we try to make them a microcosm of Americanism.

The best we can do is to keep killing people.

Karzai's inept Govt. is a first attempt. Even RAWA are keen to have a better They certainly aren't giving up on democracy.

But they have given up on the coalition ...

True, quiver, RAWA says they will not gain freedom or move towards democracy with us there. They say as long as we are there doing what we're doing the next elections will be just as useless to them as the ones that put Karzai in. They say it's up to them to gain freedom for themselves because we won't. They aren't giving up on democracy, they just know we won't gain it for them. To me that's an argument for us leaving, not an argument for us staying.

If we replace the Taliban with a Taliban-like government that is different only in name, what have we accomplished?

Exactly, and from where in Afghanistan is there a chance for better. All factions are the same.

Nothing. Unless you count death and despair.