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green apple tree
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Posted: 11/17/09 3:58 pm • # 2 |
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Editorialist |
Joined: 05/23/09 Posts: 3185 Location: ontario canada
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I don't think it's hate speech. I think it's christians who dislike obama using a kind of "inside joke" to high five one another. Basically harmless.
It's the kind of thing i would do, to be honest, if i was on the other side of the fence. Haha.
So what could the left quote, instead of the bible?
The constitution?
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Calluna
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Posted: 11/17/09 6:31 pm • # 3 |
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The type of "Christians" who would use a Bible verse as a bumper sticker slogan to put down another human are the ones who are excellent at using Bible verses out of context. They probably haven't even read to that next line to realize the full context of what they are saying. That would require thinking for themselves and reading with comprehension.
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grampatom
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Posted: 11/17/09 7:02 pm • # 4 |
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Editorialist |
Joined: 01/04/09 Posts: 4072
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Hey, Green, we lefties can quote the Bible as well as anyone. Righties have no monopoly on the Bible or Christianity. We tend to avoid comingling it with our politics, though. Just don't want the idea out there that Christianity differentiates conservatives from liberals.
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FeatheredFish
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Posted: 11/17/09 8:44 pm • # 6 |
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Jeannedeurk1 wrote: I take this very seriously and think it is anything but funny. This stuff is not happening in a vacuum. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZzsjULXDnA jd I absolutely agree JD. Schaeffer nailed it when he observed "they're trawling for an assassin".
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Sidartha
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Posted: 11/18/09 1:46 am • # 7 |
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Is it tea or Kool Aid?... "This is the American version of the Taliban"
Maybe Obama should pull the troops from Afghanistan - he needs them here.
"We have seen the enemy and the enemy is us."
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Jeannedeurk1
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Posted: 11/18/09 5:54 am • # 9 |
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Joined: 08/04/09 Posts: 660
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I just came across a bumper sticker I had bought when I was a delegate to the State Democratic Convention in 2004. I never had the nerve to actually put it on my vehicle, because I knew I couldn't afford the body work.
Remember where I live? I'm in Joe Wilson's district, Columbia SC.
The bumper sticker has a religious image on the left hand side that says, "Jesus Loves YOU! On the right hand side it says. in red block print, "...But everybody else thinks you're an asshole."
I think it's funny. It doesn't dwell on the thought of killing people, or pretending to speak for God. It's a cheap shot, potty mouthed, kiddified attempt at humor which should be easily overlooked by any adult. However, since myself and my companion had been stopped in a restaurant parking lot by a group of four young white guys with shaved heads and verbally trashed for our "John Kerry," and "Thank God I'm a Democrat" bumper stickers, I figured discretion was the better part of valor, AND would save on the repair bills.
I do not find the over zealous Christians and/or Jews to be one bit less dangerous and threatening to the lives of innocent people than I consider the Taliban or Al Quaeda.
As was mentioned on the Maddow Show last night, those folks showing up at Obama speaking engagements carrying loaded weapons are indeed a threat and I think the Secret Service may have cause to one day say, "We should have closed that gap, but there is a freedom to bear arms." Yes, but freedom of speech does not give one the right to yell fire in a crowded theater."
This is not going to go away. Somebody better figure out how to lay some enforceable ground rules .
Ya know, that reminds me of the other thread I felt the urge to write last night, but didn't. I'll see if I can get to it today.
jd
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Butterfly4you
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Posted: 11/18/09 6:17 am • # 10 |
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The psalm reads, "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." Presidential criticism through witty slogans is nothing new. Bumper stickers, t-shirts, and hats with "1/20/09" commemorated President Bush's last day in office. But the verse immediately following the psalm referenced is a bit more ominous: "Let his children be fatherless
My first thoughts on reading the OP were the incidences on the McCain/ Palin campaign trail (mostly towards the end) where McCain had to cool the jets of their supporters who were chanting pretty heavy type like threats at some rallys...... imo re op- this is sinister and a hostility towards O
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sooz06
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Posted: 11/18/09 6:41 am • # 11 |
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Administrator |
Joined: 11/07/08 Posts: 42112
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I strongly agree with Jeanne and Butterfly ~ I have a problem with all of the violent [even when subtly violent] rhetoric ~ there are just way too many unbalanced people who can't differentiate between emotional rhetoric and "a call to arms" ~
Sooz
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Dee
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Posted: 11/18/09 7:38 am • # 12 |
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I began to worry when people started showing up at rallys carrying guns and carrying signs quoting the Bible. IMO, there is no one any more dangerous than someone waving a gun in one hand and a Bible in the other.
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Sidartha
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Posted: 11/18/09 11:07 am • # 13 |
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Guns and God... You know nothing good can come from that combination.
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green apple tree
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Posted: 11/18/09 11:15 am • # 14 |
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Editorialist |
Joined: 05/23/09 Posts: 3185 Location: ontario canada
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I guess i hadn't really thought about the next line being deliberate.
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sooz06
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Posted: 11/19/09 11:41 am • # 15 |
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Joined: 11/07/08 Posts: 42112
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As a child of the 60s and 70s, I was very liberal minded as a younger woman, but have "matured" into someone who is generally a left-leaning moderate ~ I easily admit that the prior administration pushed me further left ~ and that many of today's R poltiicians and other self-proclaimed "conservatives" are keeping me there ~ there is a high level of "crazy" today withOUT intentionally trolling for more ~ and, before anyone gets their panties in a twist, I would feel exactly the same way if it were a R potus as the "target" ~ some "fervor" crosses the line ~ like this campaign ~ ~ Sooz The newest far-right craze is an anti-Obama slogan that is making its way onto t-shirts, bumper stickers, mugs, and even teddy bears: "Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8," which reads, "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." The meme is also taking off on Twitter, with conservatives calling it "hilarious." Commentators have noted that it's unclear whether the intent is to hope for an end to Obama's time in office - or an end to his life. But a look at the lines in the rest of the psalm hint at the latter: Quote: Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow. Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places. Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labor. Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children. Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out. Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out. Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth. Diana Butler Bass at Beliefnet explains that Psalm 109 is one of the "imprecatory" prayers, "a lament in the form of petition to destroy one's enemies." While perhaps intended to be a joke, she notes that the psalm actually "entreats God to destroy the president": Quote: It is the personal prayer of an individual, someone who has been dealt an injustice by another-and usually more powerful-person. The words of Psalm 109 are those of deep agony, the longings of a victim for retribution and justice. This psalm is considered one of the most difficult of all the psalms-full of violent images of vengeance and death. Quite a few of the "Pray for Obama" items are being sold at CafePress.com, although many of them have been taken off of the site (here's a cached version of some of them). Cafe Press representative Margene H. told ThinkProgress that while the site took down some of the "Pray for Obama" items today, it is now in the process of reinstating them: Quote: We initially pulled the Psalm 109:8 content from our products today because broader media dialog indicated that these designs potentially suggested violence towards the president. Based on current public discourse and further review of the actual content, we have determined that it is fair political commentary and we are in the process of reinstating this merchandise. As with all of our content, these designs will continue to be reviewed and if at any time their meaning is construed as advocating violence we will revisit our decision. On Tuesday, MSNBC's Rachel Maddow spoke with "Patience With God" author Frank Schaeffer, who said that while the psalm was "frightening" in a secular context, it's even "more threatening" in a biblical context.
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Calluna
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Posted: 11/19/09 12:05 pm • # 16 |
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Chaos333 wrote: My dh called me on his way to work today...just to tell me he saw a bumper sticker that read "Jesus would smack the shit out of you". lmao [img]/domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/laugh.gif[/img] Now THAT is a bumper sticker I would love to have. [img]/domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/happy.gif[/img]
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Sidartha
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Posted: 11/19/09 12:09 pm • # 17 |
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We are all familiar with the penchant to take words out of context. If we read the entire Psalm, we see that this prayer is directed to someone entirely different. In fact, Obama could rightly use these words in a prayer concerning his current opposition: 1: Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise; 2: For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue. 3: They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause. 4: For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer. 5: And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love. 6: Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. 7: When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin. 8: Let his days be few; and let another take his office. 9: Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow. 10: Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places. 11: Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour. 12: Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children. 13: Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out. 14: Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out. 15: Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth. 16: Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart. 17: As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him. 18: As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones. 19: Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him, and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually. 20: Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the LORD, and of them that speak evil against my soul. 21: But do thou for me, O GOD the Lord, for thy name's sake: because thy mercy is good, deliver thou me. 22: For I am poor and needy, and my heart is wounded within me. 23: I am gone like the shadow when it declineth: I am tossed up and down as the locust. 24: My knees are weak through fasting; and my flesh faileth of fatness. 25: I became also a reproach unto them: when they looked upon me they shaked their heads. 26: Help me, O LORD my God: O save me according to thy mercy: 27: That they may know that this is thy hand; that thou, LORD, hast done it. 28: Let them curse, but bless thou: when they arise, let them be ashamed; but let thy servant rejoice. 29: Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame, and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle. 30: I will greatly praise the LORD with my mouth; yea, I will praise him among the multitude. 31: For he shall stand at the right hand of the poor, to save him from those that condemn his soul.
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Calluna
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Posted: 11/19/09 12:17 pm • # 18 |
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Decided to pull out the Bible and get the full context of the verse, not just the bits and pieces being quoted. Oh, the irony! The whole psalm is an admonition against deceit and lying. Here's the first part:
Psalms 109: 1 Hold not they peace, o God of my praise; 2 For the mouth of the wicked and teh mouth of the deceitful are opened against me; they have spoken against me with a lying tongue. 3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause. 4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer 5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love. 6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. 7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin. ...
Edit: LOL...I see sidartha and I were thinking alike...he posted while I was busy researching and typing.
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Sidartha
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Posted: 11/19/09 12:25 pm • # 19 |
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Great minds think alike! [img]/domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/smile.gif[/img]
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sooz06
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Posted: 11/21/09 12:01 pm • # 20 |
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Administrator |
Joined: 11/07/08 Posts: 42112
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Interesting ~ and I think the correct decision ~ Sooz This week, both the websites of CafePress.com and Zazzle.com decided to stop selling merchandise that featured the latest right-wing craze: the slogan "Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8." However, Cafe Press then changed its mind and told ThinkProgress that it was reinstating the merchandise, which fell within "fair political commentary." Whether it's "fair political commentary" was quickly questioned. While 109:8 reads, "Let his days be few; and let another take his office," the next line is, "Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow," suggesting far more violent rhetoric than simple criticism. Diana Butler Bass at Beliefnet has explained that Psalm 109 is "considered one of the most difficult of all the psalms - full of violent images of vengeance and death." Yesterday, Cafe Press announced that it was again reversing itself and removing all the merchandise in response to strong public pressure: Quote: The public debate started with questioning if the design was simply intended to be criticism of the President or something much worse. The discourse was surprisingly civil online, given the heated nature of the topic. Given that, and the positions of groups like the ACLU and the Anti-Defamation League, we decided to let the dialogue play out publicly before making a final decision. Last night we posted a poll on our blog, read through the emails we've received and weighed the nature of the calls we've received on the topic. In the process we also learned that many of the original designers of the Psalm 109:8 designs had already decided to remove them on their own. General consensus has proven that the design does point to a broader interpretation of the Psalm and thus has been deemed inappropriate for sale at CafePress. The results of the Cafe Press poll were 76 percent calling the slogan "overly inflammatory and inappropriate" and 22 percent saying it was fair. (HT: TP commenter Marie) http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/21/caf ... ray-obama/
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