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 Post subject: Dangerous Billboards
PostPosted: 11/21/09 5:21 am • # 1 
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The Lafayette County Republican Central Committee needs to check the definition of "sedition" ~ and the penalties ~ Sooz


By Amanda Terkel on Nov 20th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

New Missouri billboard tells Americans to 'prepare for war' against the government.

Fired Up! Missouri points out that the Lafayette County Republican Central Committee is highlighting a new billboard in the state with steps for a "citizens guide to revolution of a corrupt government":

Image

This billboard replaces one that warned that the socialist "Obama-Nation" is "coming for you." It's unclear who the owner of the billboard is, but the first one was the work of a "Missouri businessman." (HT: Oliver Willis)



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PostPosted: 11/21/09 5:35 am • # 2 
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And another ~ this guy lives in a cave if he says the birth certificate and "who is Obama" questions have not been asked or answered ~ he just doesn't like the answers ~ but it seems to me that we are experiencing "free speech" dangerously close to its limits ~ Sooz


By AlexSeitz-Wald
on Nov 20th, 2009 at 7:08 pm

New Birther Billboard In Colorado Features Picture Of Obama And Asks 'President Or Jihad?'

Today, a new birther billboard went up above Wolf Automotive off I-70 in Wheat Ridge, Colorado. The sign has a picture of President Obama wearing a turban, asking, "President or Jihad?" and exhorting, "Wake up America! Remember Fort Hood":

Image

ThinkProgress spoke with Phil Wolf, the owner of the car dealership. He said that the billboard is his personal project because he believes the American people have a right to know the facts about the president:

Quote:

I'm probably like a lot of other people that have asked the question, I want to know who our president is. And to date, I don't think I know, I don't think a lot of people know, I don't think it's ever been asked - answered. [...]

When this Fort Hood massacre occurred, and I saw the response of our Commander in Chief to this unbelievable, politically correct, nonsense - to me it was just enough. And I wanted to bring a little bit more attention to this thing, because to me it just wasn't getting addressed.

Wolf added that he and the staff at his dealership have been receiving a significant number of death threats in response to the billboard. "I never expected people to threaten to kill us," he told us. "I never expected people to harm my employees. … I've had people leave the office today - they're terrified."

Wolf also denied that the billboard is making a "racist comment," calling such a notion "absolutely hilarious" and pointing out that in the presidential election, he wrote in the name of conservative Alan Keyes.

In the past, Wolf's billboard has featured other birther designs, as well as regular advertisements for cars. Wolf denied that the billboard has any affiliation with WorldNetDaily, which has sponsored other birther signs around the country.

ProgressNow Colorado has launched a campaign asking people to boycott Wolf's business.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/20/oba ... billboard/



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 Post subject: Dangerous Billboards
PostPosted: 11/21/09 6:06 am • # 3 

And I have to ask, what is the more dangerous action, putting up a stupid billboard, or trying to financially destroy a person with whom you disagree?



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PostPosted: 11/21/09 6:35 am • # 4 
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If he has the right to spend his money on stupid billboards, others have the right to spend their money elsewhere in response to his public display of stupidity. Money talks.

And I'm sure if it drives him out of business, he won't accept any of that "socialist" assistance from the "jihadist." LOL

The death threats cross the line, though.



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PostPosted: 11/21/09 7:32 am • # 5 
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Absolutely agree w/Chaos about the death threats ~

My concern and discomfort, especially with the first billboard, are the mentally unbalanced who could/might read it as a "call to arms" ~ I have a very significant problem with all of the emotionally-charged rhetoric that can easily push those mentally unbalanced into violent acts ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 11/21/09 7:58 am • # 6 
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(Well here she goes again! Good grief!!!)

One may frame the question in a slightly different fashion, Bob.

Which is the more dangerous action: Putting up a hate and fear mongering billboard with the intent to either destroy a person's reputation, his/her career, or end his/her life....OR, as you say, "trying to FINANCIALLY destroy a person with whom you "disagree?"

Once again: NOTHING HAPPENS IN A VACUUM.

This billboard is not created out of the blue. The billboard refers to Ft. Hood, and we all know what happened there. We all know a Muslim Army officer went amuk. We also know that the Muslim haters have been beating the drum to turn the event into an orchestrated , planned, conceived, ordered and scheduled to be oft repeated terrorist plot. This billboard refers to "Jihad" next to a caricature of the POTUS. (Joe Lieberman is calling for scanning of ever American born Muslim in the US military or government service.) This billboard references a long enlivened smearing accusation that the POTUS is illegally in that position due to the foundless rumors of those in opposition to his election.

This billboard, not happening in a vacuum, is reinforcing the unfounded propaganda that the POTUS is NOT an American, that he is a Jihadist (again, not in a vacuum. We know his father was a Muslim and a Kenyan.), that the POTUS had some affiliation with the actions of another human being,(again, not in a vacuum, ) also a Muslim, which resulted in the deaths of 13 American military and almost three times that number wounded.

NOT IN A VACUUM!

In the current news we are bombarded with the "pray for Obama," may he lose his office, may his children be orphans, may his wife be a widow,....etc." in a land where those of us who are NOT living in a vacuum, know there to exist white supremicist groups, the KKK militant groups, those who still salute the "Confederate flag," and seek the disunity of States Rights and a roll back of "civil rights."
Current events, members of our elected representatives are shouting out rudely during a POTUS address in the House of Congress. Members of our elected representatives are slinging names like communist, nazi, socialist, liar, un-american, terrorist lover, traitor, treason, at those who oppose their obstructionism and hate mongering. Not in a vacuum.

This "...stupid billboard..." is a picture of encitement, of enticement, of stimulation to hate, to fear, and desire the destruction of the reputation and/or the life of the POTUS.

Now, let's ask the question, removing it from its protected encasement in a vacuum of your choice, hmmm?

Which is the more dangerous action: That "stupid" billboard, with all of the ramificatins and propaganda it contains, or to be trying, in some unexplained way, to financially destroy, in some unexplained way, some person, unidentified, with whom some also unidentified person disagrees? Are you talking about the car dealer? Who would be trying to destroy him "financially," by telling him he has done a blatantly offensive and dangerous act, considering the current political atmosphere, and the obvious fact that there are those who are making every effort to associate the thought of the POTUS and his destruction as being the "American, patriotic, freedom loving" needs of our society. Including, I might add, ye goode olde boye American, genuwine automobile dealer who is probably still in business because the guy whose caricature he has stuck up there bailed out his car company's incompetent arse?

Another clear difference. It matters not to some members of our society if a person's reputation, employment, health, family or even his life be damaged or lost, just so long as nobody mess with his financial comfort, acquisition and/or superiority. Well, best wishes to good old Bernie Madoff. Imagine that, ruining that wonderful self-made man's financial life. Like, uh, wow?
Again, a wonderful example of the "fundamental disagreement" which Grampatom sought. One side, generally speaking, is more interested in the quality and endurance of decent human life. The other side, generally speaking, is focused on care and feeding, the quality and sustainability of money and the safe and secure retention of money for an individual.
I love this idea. Grampatom, this is really working well, isn't it. Bob, you are doing a wonderful job, and you are a good sport.
come on, folks. Let's take advantage of this opportunity to learn from one another. Bob's NOT "from the 'government.'" He's here to help. It's safe. lol

enjoy.

jd



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PostPosted: 11/21/09 8:00 am • # 7 
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Pardon the delete. I was trying to learn how to use the "signature" feature on this board.

I like this one, also.


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PostPosted: 11/21/09 9:02 am • # 8 
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Jeanne, for me, it all comes full circle to whether or not we believe there is a "social contract" between the public and the government ~ I believe, deeply, that our Constitution created that contract, specificially with the "provide for the general welfare" clause ~ I readily admit that several of our "social entitlements", like welfare, are out of control and need heavy-duty reining in of the rampant fraud ~ while I believe that helping our fellow citizens in times of need is a moral responsibility, I do not support "welfare" as a career choice ~ but I want our government to provide basic human needs for those who cannot provide those needs for themselves ~ food, shelter, health care ~ it hurts my heart to think of babies and elderly going to bed hungry ~ and cold ~ and ill ~ even with all of our problems today, we are still a country of plenty ~ and in my own mind we must care for those who cannot care for themselves ~ sadly, some sociopaths will always look for a way to beat the system ~ but we cannot and must not allow those sociopaths to diminish or abolish help for those in need ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 11/21/09 9:16 am • # 9 
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Jeanne, with your permission, I'd like to move your post #5 into its own thread [I'll move my post #7 as well] ~ in my own mind, what I'm calling the "social contract" is the biggest "divider" between people [not just Americans] today ~ it's an incredibly important topic to me, and I'd very much like to see us have a full discussion of it ~ which I'm not sure we'll get in a thread about "dangerous billboards" ~ Image

Sooz


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 Post subject: Dangerous Billboards
PostPosted: 11/21/09 1:13 pm • # 10 
Well, I have received my answer.. and it makes me very sad.


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PostPosted: 11/21/09 1:19 pm • # 11 
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Bob, I'm not being intentionally "thick", but I don't understand what makes you sad ~ I'd very much like us all to discuss our differences ~ that's how we all learn ~ and how we come to respect each other, even when we don't agree ~

Sooz


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 Post subject: Dangerous Billboards
PostPosted: 11/21/09 1:25 pm • # 12 
I said nothing to disrespect anyone... it saddens me to see rational people that see no difference between a stupid billboard (I see NO threat in it at all, JMHO) and making an effort to destroy someone because they expressed their opinion - I thought that was freedom of speech... I see no threat, or overt act that endangers anyone... again, just my humble opinion.. you have yours and I have mine, no disrespect intended...


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PostPosted: 11/21/09 2:27 pm • # 13 
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I didn't feel disrespected, Bob ~ I wanted to understand your disappointment ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 11/21/09 2:58 pm • # 14 
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Sooz,

You certainly have my permission to change my post to another thread. Frankly, I had never thought of the Constitution as a "social contract," but I kind of like the sound of it. I think it would make a good discussion, separate from this particular thread. Focusing on a "social contract" of reciprocal civic rights, duties, freedoms and responsibilities, opens up a much broader discussion than just the dangers of abusing what are generally thought of as American "rights and freedoms."


Bob, I will respond to your response when Sooz has done the transfer of the posts.

I wish you had found the response "interesting," rather than "sad." I made a real effort to detail what I found dangerous and why. I am as surprised at a rational being not seeing my position, as you are that another rational being cannot see yours. But, then, that's the whole reason for making such an effort. I hope you can tell me what kind of "sign" directed at whom, you would find dangerous. Surely there's some limit to "freedom of speech" and "self expression." Surely there's some line to be crossed in accusations and smears. As surely as there are laws to locate and arrest the people who are threatening the businessman. And what evidence is there of anyone "trying to financially destroy" someone with whom they disagree?

Hope we can do better.

Enjoy,

jd


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PostPosted: 11/21/09 3:16 pm • # 15 
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Thanks, Jeanne ~ but I've decided that I don't want to tear up this thread by moving posts out ~ I'll start a thread asking the question of whether a "social contract" exists between the public and its government ~ both because I don't want to limit it to just the USA and because I'm guessing the answers might be significantly different depending on our personal experiences and where we live ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 11/21/09 3:24 pm • # 16 
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I don't hink you have any reason to feel sad, Bob. This car dealer has a right to speak his mind., There aren't too many places in the world where you can advertise on a huge billboard that the head of state is a traitor, and not suffer some bad consequences from the government. As far as I know this hasn't happened to him. So his freedom of speech has not been abridged.


As to the threat of boycott: While he is entitled to express any opinion, he is not entitled in any way to anyone's car business. They can decide to not shop at his place for any reason whatsoever. If free citizens in his area are offended by his billboard, as free citizens, they also have an American's citizen's right to express their displeasure by shunning him when they need cars or car service. There is nothing unAmerican of unfair about it. And it's nothing to be sad about. We all have the right to speak our minds. None of us has the right to not experience a bad reaction fromother free people who hear us speaking.

You also have to take into account the fact that this guy is an idiot, and his billboard is egregiously stupid. People are not going to be eager to do business with him, boycott or no.


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 Post subject: Dangerous Billboards
PostPosted: 11/21/09 3:56 pm • # 17 
Grampatom, I as an individual, have a right not to buy a car from this idiot... but the last line on the first post is.. "ProgressNow Colorado has launched a campaign asking people to boycott Wolf's business. " That is a political organization organizing a boycott. You can read all you want into the billboard.. it is his right. You as an individual have the same right to vote with your pocketbook. Me, I don't live there, I will not be buying a car from him. But things like this " Wolf added that he and the staff at his dealership have been receiving a significant number of death threats in response to the billboard. "I never expected people to threaten to kill us,"". And this response from anyone, political party or not, should scare everyone on this board, because some day, it might be you making a statement that is not popular. I did not mention the death threats in my original message because I considered them as ignorant as the billboard... can I at least assume that you folks find that "in bad taste" at least?

I hate to bring up old times.. but in 1967 I was in Gulfport Mississippi... I had New York license plates on my car. A PU full of KKK morons started chasing me (they did not like New Yorkers back then, or now for that matter!), if I had not been a heavily armed member of the military returning from the Army shooting range to the Seabee base, I might not be here to tell you that this attitude makes me sad.


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PostPosted: 11/21/09 4:32 pm • # 18 
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For the record, Bob, early in this thread Chaos commented on the death threats being over the line ~ and I agreed with her in my following post ~ and as I've said repeatedly, I have a serious problem with ALL of the emotionally-charged rhetoric that suggests or threatens violence to others ~ it DOES scare me ~ every single time I hear or read it ~ all it takes is one unbalanced person hearing that as a "call to arms" to cause a human disaster ~

Sooz





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PostPosted: 11/21/09 4:35 pm • # 19 
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Wolf added that he and the staff at his dealership have been receiving a significant number of death threats in response to the billboard.

I suppose we have to take a birther's word for it, eh?
Nah, I just can't see any credibility from this guy. Just another nutjob who can't get over the fact that his favorite party lost the election.


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PostPosted: 11/21/09 5:33 pm • # 20 
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First, Bob, I doubt the guy's been getting death threats. If he has, that's a bad thing, but I don't believe him. I seriously doubt that Obama or Progress Now Colorado have issued a Fatwa on him.

Second, I fail to see what your encounter with Mississippians exercising their freedom of speech has to do with it.


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 Post subject: Dangerous Billboards
PostPosted: 11/22/09 3:11 am • # 21 
So... you're concerned about this guy getting death threats but not so concerned about his message against the POTUS? A little mixed up, don't you think? I'm all for free speech but this is shouting "fire" in the movie theater.


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 Post subject: Dangerous Billboards
PostPosted: 11/22/09 4:11 am • # 22 
I am not concerned at all about this guy... I am concerned about the rhetoric. It takes almost nothing to rile folks these days.. what does my encounter with the KKK have to do with this. In a way, it is the reaction to someone expressing an opinion that is not popular. I do not doubt that he is getting death threats, and I don't know why you guys doubt it. Why, are there not enough examples of that type of reaction. The KKK followed me because I had NY plates.. at a time when a bunch of New Yorkers were in the south doing voter registration drives. All they needed was my license plate to want to beat the hell out of me. The Dixie Chicks were boycotted and received death threats, the Rev. Jesse loves boycotts to get "his due". This country has become divided, and overreacts to everything... we have become much to sensitive... here in Texas in the last several months there have been attacks on Synagogues and we actually had a cross burning... In Dallas!

The rhetoric against Bush when he was in office is being matched and raised against Obama.. it is sick

So, when I see this, it makes me sad. Don't need a reason... call it experience. I refuse to join a boycott, for any reason.. boycotts are bully tactics. When I am offended, I will take personal action. I do not need a boycott to state my opinion, I am quite capable of doing things for myself.


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 Post subject: Dangerous Billboards
PostPosted: 11/22/09 8:17 am • # 23 
"I am not concerned at all about this guy... I am concerned about the rhetoric. It takes almost nothing to rile folks these days.."

The guy is responsible for the rhetoric designed to rile people up. I personally don't doubt he is getting death threats - but - it's his own fault and I really don't feel sorry for someone who is "trolling" for an assassin or revolution simply because his man lost. Yes... some of the rhetoric against Bush was harsh - but - I don't recall people showing up to any of his events with a loaded assault rifle or people posting billboards calling for his violent demise. In fact, if anyone did do anything like that, they would probably have landed in Gitmo shortly after.


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PostPosted: 11/22/09 8:30 am • # 24 
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Sid, I do NOT buy into the "he deserved it" mindset in terms of the death threats ~ the call-to-violence rhetoric, by and against ANYONE, has to stop before some true human disaster results from it ~ it is exceptionally dangerous, exceptionally irresponsible, and completely UNacceptable ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 11/22/09 10:34 am • # 25 
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Maybe there is someone who is hoping for universal health care who goes around threatening death to people who prefer the status quo, but I'd be surprised. Has anyone here heard about people who believe so passionately in Hawaiin birth certificates that they will assassinate someone who doesn't? The death threat claim from this guy doesn't pass the smell test.

This whole discussion isn't about free speech, but about incitement to violence. The billboard expresses the opinion that the President of the United States is a terrorist traitor, an impostor, a mole, a security breach, and that something should be done about it. How should a reasonable person interpret the author's intention? The death threats that result from his actions will not be directed at him.


Last edited by grampatom on 11/22/09 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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