It is currently 04/28/24 6:07 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




  Page 1 of 1   [ 24 posts ]
Author Message
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 3:40 am • # 1 
The Dems should give up the pretence and ditch this clown.

Lieberman opposes Medicare at 55

Dashing the hopes of Democratic lawmakers Sunday, Sen. Joseph Lieberman signaled he would oppose a health care bill that includes a proposal to expand Medicare to people as young as 55.

The independent Connecticut senator has told Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, that he would vote against the Medicare at 55 proposal. He also said he would oppose cloture and work with the GOP if it ends up in the final version of the bill, two Democratic sources told CNN Sunday.

Unanimous Republican opposition so far means Senate Democrats need all 60 votes in their caucus, which includes Lieberman, to pass the sweeping bill.

Earlier, on the CBS program "Face the Nation," Lieberman and moderate Democratic Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska cited necessary changes to the bill before they would vote for it.

Lieberman outlined steps that he said would ensure the bill passes the Senate with support from Democrats and some Republicans. Forget about the government-run public health insurance option, Lieberman said, as well as the Medicare measure that was proposed last week as part of a package of alternatives to the public option.

Lieberman's other conditions were eliminating a government insurance program focused on home health care for the disabled and strengthening cost-containment provisions.

"We don't need to keep adding on to the back of this horse until the horse breaks down and we get nothing done," Lieberman said.

A senior Senate Democratic leadership aide told CNN that the "Democratic leadership was shocked about how strident Lieberman was in his opposition to the Medicare proposal when he went on the Sunday shows."

However, Lieberman spokesman Marshall Whitmann said the senator first informed Reid on Friday that he had concerns about the Medicare 55 buy-in and "reaffirmed it today."

Reid spend the afternoon trying to get the 60 votes, according to the aide, who said Democrats still believe the Senate can produce a bill by Christmas but acknowledged that they might have to look elsewhere for the 60 votes.

Nelson said he cannot support the Senate bill without tighter restrictions on federal funding for abortion. The Senate last week defeated an amendment proposed by Nelson and two other senators that would adopt the tougher language contained in the House health care bill.

A compromise on the abortion language is possible, said Nelson, one of 10 Senate Democrats who negotiated in private last week to seek a compromise to the equally controversial public option.

The negotiators reached a tentative agreement on alternatives, including the Medicare expansion to people 55 and older who lack health insurance, as well as allowing private insurers to offer nonprofit coverage under government supervision.

Their agreement, hailed by President Obama and Democratic leaders as an important step forward, still must be analyzed for its total cost by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

Several Democrats said Sunday they would decide on the compromise once they get the CBO analysis.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Kentucky, also on "Face the Nation," signaled continuing opposition to any health care bill even if Democrats settle their differences.

"We do not believe this bill, this nearly 2,100-page monstrosity, is real health care reform," McConnell said.

Most Democrats support the public option as a nonprofit competitor to private insurers that would expand coverage and bring down prices. Republicans and some moderate Democrats, along with the health insurance industry, oppose the public option, saying it would be a first step toward a government takeover of the entire health care system.

The fate of the health care bill could hinge on the votes of as few as one senator from each party. If Democrats can get 59 of their 60 caucus members to support the bill -- for example, by changing the abortion language to secure Nelson's vote -- they can focus on gaining the vote of moderate Republican Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine, who has signaled an openness to compromise.

If the Senate eventually passes a health care bill, its version will have to be merged by a conference committee with the House version passed last month. The final bill would then need approval from both chambers before going to Obama to be signed into law.

The president and Democratic leaders have said they want the bill completed this year. The Senate would need to finish its work this week to leave a realistic chance of meeting that schedule.

Source:


Top
  
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 3:43 am • # 2 
He just gave them the 60th vote to prevent a filibuster of the omnibus appropriations bill on Saturday. He helped them spend more, which is what they love to do most of all, so they can't ditch him.

It sounds like you're advocating an ideological purity test for the Democrats! Image


Top
  
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 3:50 am • # 3 
He also voted to invoke cloture on the motion to bring the health insurance reform bill to the floor, so that it could even be considered in the Senate. It only got the minimum 60 votes, so if not for him being in the Democrats' caucus, they wouldn't have even gotten the bill to this point. He votes with the Democrats probably about 90% of the time.

They would be crazy to ditch him.


Top
  
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 3:54 am • # 4 
gopqed wrote:
It sounds like you're advocating an ideological purity test for the Democrats! Image
But I thought he was an "Independent" lodger of convenience not an actual Democrat?
So no need for a purity test, just acknowledgement of the truth. Image


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 4:41 am • # 5 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
gopqed wrote:
He just gave them the 60th vote to prevent a filibuster of the omnibus appropriations bill on Saturday. He helped them spend more, which is what they love to do most of all, so they can't ditch him.

It sounds like you're advocating an ideological purity test for the Democrats! Image

that is a generous way of putting it. it sounds like he is a lying POS to me. the "deficit spending" schtick doenst stand up to scrutiny.


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 4:49 am • # 6 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
Lieberman has publicly admitted that he likes feeling "relevant" ~ and he will vote for or against whatever maintains and massages his "relevance" ~ his opposition to a public option is the polar opposite of what something like 70% of his own constituency wants ~ my emotional reaction to Lieberman when he was running for VP was distrust ~ and that distrust has grown deeper since then ~ he's another one who craves the spotlight ~ and he will do/say anything to keep that spotlight directly focused on HIM ~

Sooz


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 4:52 am • # 7 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/20/09
Posts: 8188
WTF??? Why, exactly, does Lieberman feel the need to be such a jerk to the American people? Is it just a cry for attention?

(Note: I originally called him a douchebag, but at least they serve some useful purpose.)



Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 5:03 am • # 8 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
While I expect gop to dismiss this because it is from ThinkProgress, I see the reasoning as being sound and the speculation as being reasonable ~ and the conclusion that Lieberman is an egotistical self-serving�snake is a bull's-eye ~ Sooz��


By Matt Corley at 10:45 am

Lieberman Last Week: 'I Don't Know How Anybody Can Decide Until You See The Actual Language'

Days after saying that he was "open to looking at" Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's (D-NV) Medicare buy-in compromise, Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) criticized the proposal on CBS' Face The Nation yesterday. "I don't know exactly what's in it, from what I hear I certainly would have a hard time voting for it because it has some of the same infirmities that the public option did," said Lieberman. Later in the day, Lieberman "surprised" Reid "in a face-to-face meeting" with the news that he would join a filibuster against a health care reform bill that included the Medicare buy-in.

A Senate Democratic aide told the New York Times that Lieberman's announcement "was a total flip-flop" because the compromise's supporters "thought they had secured Mr. Lieberman's agreement to go along." But Lieberman's filibuster position isn't just a flip-flop on policy. Just last week, Lieberman told Fox News that he couldn't make a decision on the bill until the details were released with a CBO score:

Quote:

CAVUTO: Which way you going to go on this?

LIEBERMAN: Good to be here. Well, the direct answer is, that Joe doesn't know, because Joe doesn't know what - nor do most other members of the Democratic Caucus - know what's in the compromise proposals that came out of the group of 10 senators that Senator Reid sent to the Congressional Budget Office. [...]

The announcement, really, is that I don't know how anybody can decide until you see the actual language of these compromise proposals. And, on the Medicare buy-in, I have increasing concerns, as I think a lot of other colleagues in the Democratic Caucus, including some of those who were not concerned about the public option.

Later in the interview, Lieberman told Fox's Neil Cavuto that health care negotiations were "kind of at a hold right now" until Reid "gets an estimate back from the Congressional Budget Office," which is expected to be finished as early as today. Watch it:

Noting that the CBO is expected to say that the proposal will neither increase the deficit nor harm Medicare's solvency, Ezra Klein surmises that Lieberman "decided to make his move in advance of the CBO score, the better to ensure the facts of the policy couldn't impede his opposition to it."

The Wonk Room's Igor Volsky notes that "if Lieberman was truly interested in voting for health care reform he would offer substitute policies that could achieve the goals of the public option," but that "it's unlikely that Lieberman will offer Democrats a real compromise." Volsky writes that Lieberman's "initial uncertainty about the Medicare buy-in may be the result of his absence from the original negotiations." Though Lieberman was invited to the talks, he chose not to attend and Sen. Tom Carper (D-DE) sat in for him.

Update: Yglesias calls Lieberman's posturing on Medicare buy-in "the old double-cross" because "he doesn't care about expressing" his position "in misleading ways, timed to cause embarrassment to the Democratic leadership." Yglesias adds that because a "reconciliation" path to a health care bill is said to be off the table, Lieberman has "no incentive to compromise."

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/14/lie ... flip-flop/


Top
  
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 6:21 am • # 9 
Lieberman should move to Israel and stay there.


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 6:34 am • # 10 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
the better to ensure the facts of the policy couldn't impede his opposition to it

that just about covers it.


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 6:37 am • # 11 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
Dee wrote:
Lieberman should move to Israel and stay there.

Why do you say that, Dee? ~ because he's Jewish? ~ for the record, so am I ~ but I don't see how religion plays any role in this ~

Sooz


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 8:28 am • # 12 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
This is a POLITICO Breaking News email ~ if true, I will be 1,000% pissed off ~ I truly hate the thought of Lieberman "winning" via his variety of distorted and dishonest blackmail schemes ~ I hope fervantly that, after getting his vote, he is stripped of his chairmanships ~ Sooz


POLITICO Breaking News:
-----------------------------------------------------

The White House is encouraging Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) to cut a deal with Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), which would mean eliminating the proposed Medicare expansion in the health reform bill, according to an official close to the negotiations. Lieberman threw health care reform into doubt Sunday when he told Reid that he would filibuster the bill if it allowed Americans ages 55 to 64 to purchase coverage in Medicare.


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 8:42 am • # 13 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
i hope that Obama has something up his sleeve in terms of reconciliation.


Top
  
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 8:47 am • # 14 
sooz...Him being Jewish doesn't bother me at all but I have felt this way about Lieberman for several years now. For me, the United States of America comes first whereas with Lieberman, there is no doubt in my mind the State of Israel and it's survival, comes first.

I have believed for a long time now Lieberman sees the security, and safety, of Israel in the hands of people like John McCain and others on the right. I think he sees those on the right as the path to keeping American troops on the ground in the middle east, right on Israel's doorsteps as the deterrent in stopping the Arab neighbors from attacking Israel and in his mind, he must align himself with them. It is how he believes Israel will survive and he does it at the expense of American Lives, American Money, and the lives of all others who stand in the way. What he doesn't realize and doesn't see, IMO.. is he is being used by those on the right who are in it for something much different... their own greed of oil and power.

I wish Joe would just go away!!


Top
  
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 8:47 am • # 15 
LIEberman needs a good swift boot in his "oh so relevent" ass.


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/14/09 9:08 am • # 16 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
Dee wrote:
sooz...Him being Jewish doesn't bother me at all but I have felt this way about Lieberman for several years now. For me, the United States of America comes first whereas with Lieberman, there is no doubt in my mind the State of Israel and it's survival, comes first.

I have believed for a long time now Lieberman sees the security, and safety, of Israel in the hands of people like John McCain and others on the right. I think he sees those on the right as the path to keeping American troops on the ground in the middle east, right on Israel's doorsteps as the deterrent in stopping the Arab neighbors from attacking Israel and in his mind, he must align himself with them. It is how he believes Israel will survive and he does it at the expense of American Lives, American Money, and the lives of all others who stand in the way. What he doesn't realize and doesn't see, IMO.. is he is being used by those on the right who are in it for something much different... their own greed of oil and power.

I wish Joe would just go away!!

I wish Joe would go away, too ~ and I'm hopeful that his disingenuous, distorted, dishonest, and deceitful acts will be his political suicide ~ as to the rest of your response, I'm not sure you're not giving Lieberman too much credit ~ I see the ME peace treaties that are being respected as a bigger deterrent ~ but I need to think about that a while ~ thanks for answering my question ~

Sooz


Top
  
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/15/09 3:05 am • # 17 
Apparently, there are about a dozen Democrats who have some concerns about the Medicare buy-in plan, so it's most likely going to be dropped from the Senate bill. Perhaps Democrats and their followers are learning that governing is much more difficult than being the opposition.


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/15/09 4:57 am • # 18 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
perhaps they are learning that 10% of the senate can hold 70% of the US public hostage. perhaps they are learning how profoundly undemocratic our institutions are. perhaps, after making this discovery, they will give up on voting, knowing that their vote doesn't really matter.

perhaps
perhaps
perhaps


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/15/09 5:02 am • # 19 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
Mac, your post #17 is a perfect bull's eye ~

Sooz


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/15/09 5:04 am • # 20 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
sooz08 wrote:
Mac, your post #17 is a perfect bull's eye ~

Sooz

voter apathy is a RATIONAL response to observing the facts of how our system really functions. it is not because people are dumb. it is because they are smart.


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/15/09 6:02 am • # 21 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
I repeat that I am hopeful we are witnessing Lieberman's political suicide ~ that seems more likely now that Connecticut newspaper editorials are exposing what a snake he is ~ and all in his egotistical quest to "feel relevant" ~ while, sadly, Lieberman is not alone, he is high on the list for putting "sleazy" in the phrase "sleazy politician" ~ Sooz


THE PROGRESS REPORT

December 15, 2009
by Faiz Shakir, Amanda Terkel, Matt Corley, Benjamin Armbruster, Zaid Jilani, Igor Volsky, and Alex Seitz-Wald

HEALTH CARE

Seeking A 60th Vote

Last week, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid replaced the popular public option in the health reform bill with a "Medicare buy-in" provision that would expand the federal insurance program by allowing Americans aged 55 to 64 to buy into it. Reid said the change was necessary to secure the support of moderate and conservative Democrats, who threatened to join a GOP filibuster against any bill containing the public option. Reid said that with the compromise, there was now "broad agreement" between the two groups. Sen. Joseph Lieberman (I-CT), whose support is important to avoid a filibuster, said he was "encouraged by the progress toward a consensus." Yet on Sunday, Lieberman suddenly announced that he would also be opposing this compromise specially crafted to gain his support. Noting that he still didn't "know exactly" what is in the legislation, he nevertheless said on CBS's Face the Nation that he "certainly would have a hard time voting for it because it has some of the same infirmities that the public option did." Last night, Senate Democrats also announced that they would be giving in to Lieberman's demands and likely dropping the Medicare buy-in provision in an effort to secure passage before Christmas. Lieberman has not been a good faith negotiator and his new positions are direct contradictions of ones he held as recently as September. It has become clear that his objective is not finding common ground to pass comprehensive reform, but rather killing or weakening health care reform legislation in order to preserve the status quo.

'PLAYING GAMES WITH PEOPLE'S HEALTH CARE': Perhaps the most stunning aspect of Lieberman's announcement opposing the Medicare buy-in provision is that he has consistently supported such a proposal. During the 2000 presidential race, the Democratic ticket of Gore-Lieberman supported
expanding Medicare to allow Americans aged 55 to 64 to buy in. During a meeting with the Connecticut Post in September, Lieberman "appeared to go further than the current Senate deal," saying that the program could be opened up to people aged 50 and over. Spokesperson Erika Masonhall told the Daily Beast yesterday that the senator believes a Medicare buy-in would be "duplicative." She cited the "extensive health insurance reforms, including a more narrow age rating for pricing health insurance premiums and extensive affordability credits" for people 55-65 years old that were in the Senate Finance Committee bill and then incorporated and "strengthened" in Reid's version. Of course, unmentioned by Masonhall is the fact that Lieberman also opposed the Senate Finance bill because he believed it was "trying to do too much." Lieberman's "explanations" are not adequate. As the Connecticut Post editorial board wrote yesterday, Lieberman needs to "drop this charade and come up with a coherent explanation for his recent behavior. He should not join a filibuster against the bill. Otherwise, he risks sending a message that he's playing games with people's health care. And that is a dangerous game to play."

NOT A GOOD FAITH NEGOTIATOR: Lieberman's objective from day one in the health care debate seems to have been to preserve the status quo. He has never been a good faith negotiator. On Nov. 1, he even said that having "
nothing" was better than having a health care reform bill with a public option. He isn't trying to look for solutions; he's looking for attention, noting that he enjoys feeling "relevant." As Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo wrote yesterday, Lieberman is "now basically mocking his Democratic colleagues by moving the goal posts every time a new agreement is struck." "Lieberman continues to play Lucy to Reid's Charlie Brown, yanking away the football again and again with a cheerful grin on his face, with no apparent regard for the fact that this is making Reid look like, well, Charlie Brown," added the Plum Line's Greg Sargent, also pointing out that the media shouldn't be "spending so much time puzzling over the motives and machinations of a single Senator who obviously never approached the process, or his colleagues, in good faith to begin with." Indeed, Lieberman last week said that it was impossible for anyone to make a fully informed decision about the Senate legislation until it was scored by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). The CBO has not yet scored the bill, but nevertheless, Lieberman went ahead and made a decision, showing that he had made up his mind to oppose long ago.

ARE SENATE DEMOCRATS RECONSIDERING RECONCILIATION?: The Senate Democratic leadership has repeatedly asserted that the reconciliation process -- which would allow the Senate to pass portions of health care with only 51 votes --
is off the table. "That would probably be the worst thing we could do right now because of deadlines and dates," Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) said last month. "If the question is 'let's fail again' or 'let's go to reconciliation,' I don't think that's a real question," said Center for American Progress President and CEO John Podesta. Among the complications: Insurance reforms such as banning exclusions of people who have pre-existing conditions could not be included in a bill, and "anything passed as part of a budget reconciliation bill would expire in 10 years unless it was renewed or revised." Podesta added that without the support of Lieberman and Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE) -- who has said that he will oppose any bill that doesn't include strict restrictions on a woman's right to choose -- the question is whether Maine Republicans Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins will join in blocking a GOP filibuster. CNN reported yesterday that reconciliation was unlikely to move forward because of opposition from Senate leadership.

http://pr.thinkprogress.org/



Top
  
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/15/09 6:51 am • # 22 
I thought Canada's "system" of governance was a mess... yours is worse in that it is completely incomprehensible!


Top
  
 Offline
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/15/09 8:23 am • # 23 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
i am halfway tempted to say fuck it, throw in the towel, and hang this on Leibermans neck. but when i calm down and think about it, it doesn't hurt Lieberman, and it really kills the rest of us.


Top
  
 Post subject: He's at it again
PostPosted: 12/15/09 8:49 am • # 24 
As long as they keep buckling to his demands, he's going to keep demanding.
Obama should grow a spine and tell him to f@*k off before he tosses him overboard and strips him of his chairmanship.
Make him insignificant, he'd dread that most.


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

  Page 1 of 1   [ 24 posts ] New Topic Add Reply

All times are UTC - 6 hours



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
© Voices or Choices.
All rights reserved.