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gopqed
PostPosted: 12/19/09 4:23 am • # 1 
They have decided to oppose healthcare reform.

Liberal MoveOn.org opposes Senate health bill

Five million-member progressive group urges Democrats to block legislation

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34482626/ns/politics/
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 Offline sooz06
PostPosted: 12/19/09 5:25 am • # 2 
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Not surprising to me ~ I just don't agree with Moveon's or Howard Dean's take ~ I admit I am NOT happy with how the health care reform bill has been ravaged by BOTH the Rs and the Ds ~ but I am not an "all or nothing" girl ~ I believe strongly and deeply that it will never get easier or cheaper ~ and I believe equally strongly and deeply that health care reform is a moral imperative ~ we simply have to start somewhere ~

Sooz
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 Offline sooz06
PostPosted: 12/19/09 5:31 am • # 3 
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gopqed wrote:
They have decided to oppose healthcare reform.
BTW, neither Moveon nor Howard Dean are "opposed" to healthcare reform ~ they are opposed to the current health care reform bill ~ and not so much because of what it contains but because of what it eliminated ~

Sooz
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 Offline macroscopic
PostPosted: 12/19/09 6:21 am • # 4 
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gopqed wrote:
They have decided to oppose healthcare reform.

Liberal MoveOn.org opposes Senate health bill

Five million-member progressive group urges Democrats to block legislation

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34482626/ns/politics/
as you know, my position is not terribly different than this.
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Katy51
PostPosted: 12/19/09 6:25 am • # 5 
I think that if this is passed the way it is, it'll be a disaster, and the fact that something passed will make it easier to do nothing more.
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 Offline macroscopic
PostPosted: 12/19/09 6:30 am • # 6 
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Katy51 wrote:
I think that if this is passed the way it is, it'll be a disaster, and the fact that something passed will make it easier to do nothing more.

i agree with Katy on this. but let's be honest for a sec- the Senate version will NOT pass in the house, so this will all come down to reconciliation. the reconciled version is the thing, not the Senate version.
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Katy51
PostPosted: 12/19/09 6:30 am • # 7 
True.
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 Offline sooz06
PostPosted: 12/19/09 6:45 am • # 8 
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macroscopic wrote:
Katy51 wrote:
I think that if this is passed the way it is, it'll be a disaster, and the fact that something passed will make it easier to do nothing more.

i agree with Katy on this. but let's be honest for a sec- the Senate version will NOT pass in the house, so this will all come down to reconciliation. the reconciled version is the thing, not the Senate version.


Excellent point, Mac ~ altho I still see it as easier to refine something in place than to get something put in place ~ Medicare is a primary example of refining in place ~ I understand today's Medicare program is significantly different from the original legislation ~

Sooz
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gopqed
PostPosted: 12/20/09 4:06 am • # 9 
sooz08 wrote:
gopqed wrote:
They have decided to oppose healthcare reform.
BTW, neither Moveon nor Howard Dean are "opposed" to healthcare reform ~ they are opposed to the current health care reform bill ~ and not so much because of what it contains but because of what it eliminated ~

Sooz


Oh my gosh! Someone can oppose the bill without being opposed to reforming the health insurance system? I never would have guessed that from all the thinkprogress blog posts and comments posted here that stated that Republicans are opposed to healthcare reform because they are opposed to the bill....
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 Offline jabra2
PostPosted: 12/20/09 4:22 am • # 10 
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I wonder if there are any serious studies out there showing what tort reform and selling insurance across state lines would actually accomplish?
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 Offline sooz06
PostPosted: 12/20/09 4:46 am • # 11 
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gop, nice spin ~ but you are defending the indefensible ~ the Rs have been ferociously/rabidly and very publicly "anti health care reform" since before any bills were drafted ~ the Rs have raised intentional lies, distortions, manipulations, and misinterpretations into an art form ~ contrary to your spin, those lies, distortions, manipulations, and misinterpretations have been aired and published virtually 24/7 for months across the whole spectrum of media ~ and not just in or by "liberal blogs" ~ and what Moveon and Howard Dean are opposing are the eliminations made as concessions to the Rs as a whole and to some Ds ~

Sooz
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gopqed
PostPosted: 12/20/09 4:54 am • # 12 
The Republicans have been vociferously anti-the-Democrats'-healthcare-reform-bill, but not opposed to healthcare reform. That's simply the leftwing attempt to marginalize any opposition to the Democrats' desire to engage in the largest post-war expansion of the federal government.

There are many healthcare reform initiatives that don't involve creating a massive expansion of the federal government's authority. I actually think the current Senate bill is a reasonable compromise and a very workable solution to health insurance access in this country. The other unaddressed piece of the puzzle is the piece that deals with attempting to reduce healthcare costs. That's a much tougher nut to crack.
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 Offline sooz06
PostPosted: 12/20/09 4:56 am • # 13 
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Jab, I don't know about "serious studies" ~ but there has been plenty of press that shows virtually no difference in states that have legislated tort reform ~ people don't realize that it's NOT the huge awards that are problematic because those huge awards are very few and very far between ~ it's the "nuisance" and fraudulent cases ~ and tort reform does nothing to limit or control those nuisance/fraudulent cases ~ selling insurance across state lines is a whole different kind of problem because insurance is state-regulated ~

Sooz
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gopqed
PostPosted: 12/20/09 5:00 am • # 14 
Once the health insurance reform bill is passed, health insurance is going to become a federally-regulated product, as well.
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 Offline sooz06
PostPosted: 12/20/09 5:20 am • # 15 
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gopqed wrote:
The Republicans have been vociferously anti-the-Democrats'-healthcare-reform-bill, but not opposed to healthcare reform. That's simply the leftwing attempt to marginalize any opposition to the Democrats' desire to engage in the largest post-war expansion of the federal government.

There are many healthcare reform initiatives that don't involve creating a massive expansion of the federal government's authority. I actually think the current Senate bill is a reasonable compromise and a very workable solution to health insurance access in this country. The other unaddressed piece of the puzzle is the piece that deals with attempting to reduce healthcare costs. That's a much tougher nut to crack.

LOL, gop ~ just can't admit that the Rs have been "vociferously anti" since before there was any drafted bill, huh? ~ and still refusing to recognize the Rs public "defeat/delay everything" vow ~ if the Rs are so pro-health-care-reform, how come nothing was done during the prior 8 years? ~ this problem did not just pop up overnight ~ I am NOT happy with the current Senate bill ~ for me, the carve-outs [including the drug-import rejection] have put the kabosh on real competition, which I consider an imperative ~ but, as I've said repeatedly, we have to start somewhere ~ health care reform is not going to get easier or cheaper ~ I do fully agree that "attempting to reduce healthcare costs ... is a much tougher nut to crack" ~ I'm not even sure where to start on that ~ the vast majority of docs are not raking in huge salaries ~ and I really do not see tort reform as a serious factor ~

Sooz
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 Offline macroscopic
PostPosted: 12/20/09 6:26 am • # 16 
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There are many healthcare reform initiatives that don't involve creating a massive expansion of the federal government's authority.

how does pooling our resources so that we can afford insurance constitute an expansion of authority, gop?
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