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PostPosted: 01/19/10 4:37 pm • # 26 
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gopqed wrote:
They were never offered any compromise positions.

LOL ~ okay ~ so what compromises did the Rs suggest?

Sooz


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PostPosted: 01/19/10 4:39 pm • # 27 
gop, why didn't the repubs come up with their own stuff instead of waiting to be invited and instead of just vowing to defeat Obama? They could make their own plan and present it so that we all could see it. Then we could help persuade our people to choose the things we think important.


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PostPosted: 01/19/10 4:52 pm • # 28 
At times like these, I am soooo glad I live in Canada.


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PostPosted: 01/19/10 4:52 pm • # 29 
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Katy51 wrote:
gop, why didn't the repubs come up with their own stuff instead of waiting to be invited and instead of just vowing to defeat Obama? They could make their own plan and present it so that we all could see it. Then we could help persuade our people to choose the things we think important.
They did.
One was the good ole tort reform, the other allowing insurance sales across state lines.


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PostPosted: 01/19/10 6:17 pm • # 30 
He did pose nude in Cosmo...

Here is the picture....

http://www.kansascity.com...l?storylink=omni_popular

For some reason my links will hav to be copied or they don't work. Don't know what the problem is but you can get this link to work eventually but there is the picture that Brown posed for...actually there are three pictures but one is totally nude except he does have his hand over his prize possession.

Maybe someone can post the link where you can actually just click on it but the Kansascity.com clearly has the article.


Last edited by Dee on 01/19/10 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 01/19/10 6:46 pm • # 31 
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Your link works, Dee ~ Image

Sooz



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PostPosted: 01/19/10 6:51 pm • # 32 
Glad it works now because when I hit send it didn't look like it was going to.


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PostPosted: 01/20/10 2:40 am • # 33 
Katy51 wrote:
gop, why didn't the repubs come up with their own stuff instead of waiting to be invited and instead of just vowing to defeat Obama? They could make their own plan and present it so that we all could see it. Then we could help persuade our people to choose the things we think important.


They did - Their proposals and bills covered a wide variety of approaches to the various pieces of the puzzle, and entailed far more than tort reform and buying insurance across state lines. You can look at the summaries in this document: http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/healthreform_sbs_full.pdf

There are proposals and bills by Tom Coburn, Bob Bennett (co-sponsored by Ron Wyden, a Democrat from Oregon,) Tom Price and a group headed up by Howard Baker, Bob Dole and Tom Daschle. They include things such as the creation of exchanges, insurance subsidies to prople earning up to 400% of the federal poverty level, elimination of pre-existing condition denials and a number of other points.


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PostPosted: 01/20/10 3:44 am • # 34 
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Most of those points ARE in one or the other bill ~ everything I read showed the R suggestions covered something like 20M people LESS and preserved much of the status quo, gop ~ as I said before, the current Rs' definition of of "negotiation and compromise" is "give me what I want and I still won't vote for a progressive issue" ~

Sooz



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PostPosted: 01/20/10 4:50 am • # 35 
Cool, thanks, gop.


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PostPosted: 01/20/10 4:59 am • # 36 
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I'm a former resident of MA who voted for Kennedy every chance I got. I lived there for most of 38 years. I'm guessing that it was not so much Brown winning the election as it was Coakley losing it. She is not a likeable figure and did not campaign well. Even in MA with all the educated elitists, a candidate with a warm personality does better than a wet dishrag. How do youthink people like Tip O'Neill, Ted Kennedy and the infamous James Micheal Curley got re-elected over and over? No matter what they were like in office, if you had the occasion ot meet one of them, they shook your hand like you were a long lost cousin welcomed back. When Romney was elected governor he went up against a Democratic DA who "couldn't lose" and the outcome was the same- Republican elected. Add a little medical $$$- there is a large medical economy in MA- and voila.


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PostPosted: 01/20/10 5:06 am • # 37 
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I've read the same things about Coakley, queenie ~ so it's nice to hear it from someone who has actually experienced the phenomenon ~ I've also read that Coakley basically took the election forgranted, not even bothering to campaign until the last couple of weeks when Brown was already breathing fire on her ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 01/20/10 5:26 am • # 38 
It still makes no sense to me,queen. None whatsoever. Nationally the people of MA knew a health care agenda was on the line. They knew how Ted felt about it and what it socially meant to people in America. Why would they put us in the position to throw that away? Because Coakly isn't warm? I don't think Lautenberg is warm either and it's not exactly a characteristic that I value as long as he represents our interests.


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PostPosted: 01/20/10 6:43 am • # 39 
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I don't understand either, Kathy ~ I feared, and this more or less confirms my fear, what the real problem is ~ I am NOT an "all or nothing" mindset ~ and I still do NOT believe it was ever reasonable to asssume or demand we go from where we are today to "perfection" in one step ~ but what is particularly galling to me is that Massachusetts HAS what the rest of the country desperately needs ~ Sooz


An exit survey of Massachusetts voters confirms that "decreased turnout among constituencies that historically have voted for progressive candidates," combined with a strong Republican performance among independents, delivered Scott Brown the margins he needed to win.

The poll, which was commissioned by "Women's Voices, Women Vote" and conducted by Lake Research Partners (a firm headed by Martha Coakley's pollster Celinda Lake), found that key demographic supporters of Obama (unmarried women, people of color, and younger voters) did not turn out in large numbers for Democrats. The Massachusetts turnout reflects recent trends in the Virginia and New Jersey gubernatorial elections.

Martha Coakley reportedly did "no outreach" to communities of color and neglected to do any advertising in the African-American or Hispanic media. Voters under age of 40 went to Brown by a margin of 52% to 46%. But younger voters in general turned out at lower rates than in the past. The percentage of unmarried women who comprised the percentage of all voters fell 5 points from 2008. And, self-identified independents flocked to Brown in droves - 76% to 21%.

But even despite the depressed progressive turnout in yesterday's election, a majority of voters (51%) still felt Obama and the Democrats are taking the country in the right direction. Issues, while important to voters, split along partisan lines: Coakley won health care voters, while Brown won among jobs and economy voters and tax/spending voters:

Quote:

- Forty-six (46%) of voters said their vote was mainly to show support for health care reform rather than to show opposition to it (35%).

- Independents sent a clearer signal on the issue, with 44% stating their vote was mainly in opposition to reform and 30% saying it was mainly in support.

- Coakley voters were stronger in their support for reform (80% said their vote was mainly in support of reform) than Brown voters were in opposition to it (65% said their vote was mainly in opposition to reform).

- Coakley won among voters who rated health care reform a "10" on an importance scale (Coakley 53% to 47% for Brown), Brown won among voters who said the same for jobs and the economy (Brown 55% to 44% for Coakley) and won bigger among voters who highlighted taxes and spending (Brown 70% to Coakley 29%).

Many pundits are leaping to blame progressives. Glenn Beck said yesterday, "The progressive movement is sucking the blood out of each of the parties." Conservative Democrat Lanny Davis said "blame the left for Massachusetts." While there's plenty of blame to go around, one thing that's certain is that the progressive base's current lack of enthusiasm is hurting Democratic candidates.

Update: A separate poll of Massachusetts Obama voters found that they didn't think the health care bill goes "far enough," they support the public option, and they want Democrats to be bolder in their policy stances.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/20/exit-poll-of-mass/


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PostPosted: 01/20/10 6:48 am • # 40 
Quote:
Update: A separate poll of Massachusetts Obama voters found that they didn't think the health care bill goes "far enough," they support the public option, and they want Democrats to be bolder in their policy stances.

Then... maybe they should have voted for a Democrat? This makes no sense to me at all and if the public gets angry that the healthcare bill doesn't pass, then they have only themselves to blame. The insurance execs are laughing all the way to the bank.


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PostPosted: 01/20/10 7:17 am • # 41 
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Beck is free-falling ~ but I have to laugh that he is so anti-Brown, even if his reasons are so bizarre ~ Sooz


By [url=/author/Alex%20Seitz-Wald]Alex Seitz-Wald[/url] at 1:00 pm
Glenn Beck welcomes Scott Brown to Washington: 'This one could end with a dead intern.'

Image

On his radio show today, Fox News host Glenn Beck praised the victory of Sen.-elect Scott Brown (R-MA), complaining that the media called the race too early because he wanted to better "savor" the moment. But Beck quickly pivoted to attacking Brown for an awkward joke he made during his acceptance speech last night. After introducing his daughters to the crowd, Brown said "just in case anybody throughout the country" was wondering, "yes, they're both available." Beck was outraged by Brown's comments, implying that the new Republican senator may be a sexual predator capable of killing young women:

Quote:

BECK: I want a chastity belt on this man, I want his every move watched in Washington. I don't trust this guy. No, I'm just telling you. … This one could end with a dead intern. This one could end with a dead intern.

COHOST: Dead intern? I'm not sure I'd go that far.

BECK: I'm just saying it could end with a dead intern. … I'm just saying: Congratulations, now let's monitor him. Let's put an ankle bracelet on him. Let's just know where he is at all times.

COHOST: You're raining on the parade. We needed 10 minutes of celebration and you are a non-stop rain cloud.

BECK: Okay, we'll get to the celebration now - if that's what you think is appropriate.

Listen here:

Yesterday on his TV show, Beck conceded, "I don't trust Scott Brown." He explained his wariness: "[Brown] posed naked in Cosmopolitan magazine back in 1982. I mean - really? I question the judgment of man who thinks anyone wants to see the male body naked: 100 percent of Americans agree naked males should never, ever be seen - ever."

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/20/beck-brown-intern/



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PostPosted: 01/20/10 7:40 am • # 42 
So the people of Massachusetts elected a nude model who publicly pimps his daughters and threatens the future health of millions of people. Hmmm... this guy sounds like a sociopath.


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PostPosted: 01/20/10 7:49 am • # 43 
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LMAO- Don't hold back, Sid...tell us how you really feel!

I don't really care about the nude thing....or the comment ( though if I were his daughter, I'd be pissed!)...I care about what he does with the power he's been given.


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PostPosted: 01/21/10 4:40 am • # 44 
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kathyk1024 wrote:
It still makes no sense to me,queen. None whatsoever. Nationally the people of MA knew a health care agenda was on the line. They knew how Ted felt about it and what it socially meant to people in America. Why would they put us in the position to throw that away? Because Coakly isn't warm? I don't think Lautenberg is warm either and it's not exactly a characteristic that I value as long as he represents our interests.
I think Sooz's last post explains a lot of this. But generally, voters of any state don't go out and vote thinking about how it affects the rest of the country. Certainly some astute voters do, but most people are thinking about themselves when they enter the booth. If massachusetts cared what others thought, they would have stopped electing Kennedy years ago, because most of the rest of the country has thought he was too liberal and have been taking potshots at him for the last ten years.

Sometimes, you just can't vote the party line. A few years ago Maryland Democrats put up Kathleen Kennedy Townsend as the gubernatorial candidate. she was just too dumb to vote for, and Maryland elected its first Republican governor since Spiro Agnew. He lasted one term, and he was very moderate. Scott Brown will not be a long term Senator either.


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PostPosted: 01/21/10 7:57 am • # 45 

I don't think I believe that. I did a lot of business travel to Massachusetts; the Volpe Center in Cambridge, MITRE Bedford and Raytheon in Marlborough and maybe it was the people I associated with, but this was an astute crowd. Even the taxi drivers were political and would have known the nation-wide repercussions of this vote. Teddy took care of their jobs and kept the high tech stuff in the state. Every once in a while they talked about moving Volpe and Teddy got involved. What's Brown going to bring to the table for the basically astute voter in MA and truthfully what are they angry about? No one's federal taxes have changed. They are worried about the government spending?

I still think something else is at play here. It looks to me that they intentionally sent Mr. Brown to DC to stop health care reform.



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PostPosted: 01/21/10 8:05 am • # 46 
One of the political analysts on ABC suggested that the people in Mass have such good health care, that their fear was it getting worse with the proposed health care bills.


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PostPosted: 01/21/10 9:43 am • # 47 
Jan 21 - Can lessons of Tuesday's Massachusetts election be nationalized? The state's electorate is atypical: Massachusetts is the only state that has already enacted its own insurance overhaul resulting in near-universal coverage. A Suffolk University poll of 500 Massachusetts registered voters conducted from Jan. 11 to Jan. 13 found that 54 percent supported the state's insurance system, while 36 percent opposed it. Republican Scott Brown did make the argument during the campaign that, "We already have insurance. We have 98 percent of our people insured, so why we would we in fact cut medical -- you know, Medicare half-a-trillion, have longer lines, lesser coverage, subsidize other states? It makes no sense. It's not good for Massachusetts." Was Tuesday's outcome a case of self-interested voters trying to preserve what they had? Was the election not an indicator of national sentiment?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32462685/ns/health-health_care


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PostPosted: 01/21/10 1:17 pm • # 48 
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gopqed wrote:
It turns out it was in Cosmo, not Playgirl, and it was back in 1982 when he was a law student. It's a huge non-issue.

I'm curious if your "huge non-issue" comment would hold if it had been a woman posing nude ~

Sooz


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