It is currently 04/11/25 6:37 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Go to page Previous  1, 2   Page 2 of 2   [ 38 posts ]
Author Message
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/22/10 4:53 am • # 26 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
gopqed wrote:
You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill.

This decision only applies to independent expenditures, uncoordinated with candidate campaigns. Corporations and unions will still be unable to contribute to candidate campaigns, PAC's and parties.

There is every opportunity now for legal requirements to be put in place that would require shareholder approval of corporate decisions and membership approval of untion decisions to back candidates. Disclosure laws would easily identify for voters who is running ads. Information is key, and if it's available to voters they will take note of it.

There are very powerful reasons that large, prominent corporations who have access to loads of cash will not get involved in candidate advocacy - PR, their customers' reactions and the political consequences of backing a candidate who loses. This decision actually benefits unions who will now have the same opportunity for independent expenditures and whose membership approval for those expenditures will be much more easily achieved. The corporations you're going to see take advantage of this decision are most likely going to be relatively small, closely-held corporations rather than any larger public corporation.

actually, i am making a mountain out of a mountain, and you are making a molehill out of it.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/22/10 4:54 am • # 27 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/04/09
Posts: 4072
The corporation is a legal artifice, an artificial person, created to absolve actual persons of legal and financial liability beyond the risk of losing their investment. The people who debated and voted on the Constitution would not have been keen on having the British East India Company or The Hudson Bay Company pumping a million dollars into the presidential campaigns of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.

In a saner world, the First Amendment would guarantee your freedom of speech, providing you were born with lungs, larynx, tongue and lips. And the corporation's personhood would involve taxation under the same rules as apply to any other person..


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/22/10 5:17 am • # 28 

"The Supreme Court has given a green light to a new stampede of special interest money in our politics," he said. "It is a major victory for big oil, Wall Street banks, health insurance companies and the other powerful interests that marshal their power every day in Washington to drown out the voices of everyday Americans."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34983042/ns/business-answer_desk/



Top
  
PostPosted: 01/22/10 5:45 am • # 29 
grampatom wrote:
There is every opportunity now for legal requirements to be put in place that would require shareholder approval of corporate decisions and membership approval of untion decisions to back candidates. Disclosure laws would easily identify for voters who is running ads.

Would that such laws had a chance in hell of being enacted.


Those would have an excellent chance of being enacted - I can think of at least three Republican Senators right off the top of my head that would support them, and there would likely be more than that.


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/22/10 5:46 am • # 30 
I maintain the ruling creates a new class of "special interest" lobbyists

This decision has nothing to do with lobbyists.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/22/10 5:53 am • # 31 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
gopqed wrote:
I maintain the ruling creates a new class of "special interest" lobbyists

This decision has nothing to do with lobbyists.

I am using the word "lobbyist" more generally than you are, gop ~ which is why I included "special interest" ~ now, instead of paying registered lobbyists to promote/buy their causes, corporations can do the work themselves ~

Sooz


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/22/10 5:55 am • # 32 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
grampatom wrote:
The corporation is a legal artifice, an artificial person, created to absolve actual persons of legal and financial liability beyond the risk of losing their investment. The people who debated and voted on the Constitution would not have been keen on having the British East India Company or The Hudson Bay Company pumping a million dollars into the presidential campaigns of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.

In a saner world, the First Amendment would guarantee your freedom of speech, providing you were born with lungs, larynx, tongue and lips. And the corporation's personhood would involve taxation under the same rules as apply to any other person..

in Jefferson's day, corporations were temporary agencies that were created to fulfill larger social purposes. the idea of a corporation with unlimited lifespan, goals that are often in direct competition with the public interest, and rights which exceed that of flesh and blood citizens was an unthinkable horror.


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/22/10 5:59 am • # 33 
sooz08 wrote:
gopqed wrote:
I maintain the ruling creates a new class of "special interest" lobbyists

This decision has nothing to do with lobbyists.

I am using the word "lobbyist" more generally than you are, gop ~ which is why I included "special interest" ~ now, instead of paying registered lobbyists to promote/buy their causes, corporations can do the work themselves ~

Sooz


You're making a lot of general statements without explaining your reasoning or building a case for your viewpoint.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/22/10 6:04 am • # 34 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112

BS, gop ~ have you forgotten how to read or comprehend? ~ I've stated my views numerous times, explaining exactly why I believe the way I do ~ I will also add here that apparently "some" have not recognized the inherent dangers in deregulation ~

Sooz



Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/22/10 6:06 am • # 35 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
macroscopic wrote:
grampatom wrote:
The corporation is a legal artifice, an artificial person, created to absolve actual persons of legal and financial liability beyond the risk of losing their investment. The people who debated and voted on the Constitution would not have been keen on having the British East India Company or The Hudson Bay Company pumping a million dollars into the presidential campaigns of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.

In a saner world, the First Amendment would guarantee your freedom of speech, providing you were born with lungs, larynx, tongue and lips. And the corporation's personhood would involve taxation under the same rules as apply to any other person..

in Jefferson's day, corporations were temporary agencies that were created to fulfill larger social purposes. the idea of a corporation with unlimited lifespan, goals that are often in direct competition with the public interest, and rights which exceed that of flesh and blood citizens was an unthinkable horror.


As far as I'm concerned, the "rights which exceed that of flesh and blood citizens" REMAIN AN UNTHINKABLE HORROR today ~

Sooz


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/22/10 6:20 am • # 36 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
sooz08 wrote:
macroscopic wrote:
grampatom wrote:
The corporation is a legal artifice, an artificial person, created to absolve actual persons of legal and financial liability beyond the risk of losing their investment. The people who debated and voted on the Constitution would not have been keen on having the British East India Company or The Hudson Bay Company pumping a million dollars into the presidential campaigns of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.

In a saner world, the First Amendment would guarantee your freedom of speech, providing you were born with lungs, larynx, tongue and lips. And the corporation's personhood would involve taxation under the same rules as apply to any other person..

in Jefferson's day, corporations were temporary agencies that were created to fulfill larger social purposes. the idea of a corporation with unlimited lifespan, goals that are often in direct competition with the public interest, and rights which exceed that of flesh and blood citizens was an unthinkable horror.


As far as I'm concerned, the "rights which exceed that of flesh and blood citizens" REMAIN AN UNTHINKABLE HORROR today ~

Sooz

i think it is debatable whether corporations should have ANY say in government. the people that run them? OF COURSE. the corporations themselves? debatable. the fact that they not only have say, but a greater say than the flesh and blood electorate is an abomimation- a caricature of democracy that would make a King envious.


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/22/10 6:40 am • # 37 
I think both sides of the issue have been presented well in this thread.

All I will say is, especially in this time of government corporate bailouts, this is totally unethical and will be full of conflicts of interest.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/23/10 4:32 am • # 38 
Administrator

Joined: 01/16/16
Posts: 30003
Perhaps the SCOTUS is on the same bribery Christmas list as the Congress Critters.


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Go to page Previous  1, 2   Page 2 of 2   [ 38 posts ] New Topic Add Reply

All times are UTC - 6 hours



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
© Voices or Choices.
All rights reserved.