It is currently 05/13/24 6:40 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




  Page 1 of 1   [ 19 posts ]
Author Message
 Offline
PostPosted: 12/25/09 10:07 am • # 1 
Editorialist

Joined: 08/04/09
Posts: 660

(Not don'tcha feel just soooo secure with our safety precautions. Good Grief, we are the laughingstock of the world as the "best" at anything. The Keystone Kops on steroids. If you can smuggle explosives on an airliner that easily, what are we paying for all these security measures for? Job creation? For idiots?)


WASHINGTON - A Delta Airlines official says a passenger aboard a plane at Detroit Metropolitan Airport set off firecrackers aboard the plane, causing a commotion and some minor injuries.

Delta spokeswoman Susan Elliott says Delta Flight 253, an Airbus 330 carrying 278 passengers, was arriving in Detroit from Amsterdam when the incident took place Friday afternoon.

Elliott says the passenger was immediately subdued. She had no details on injuries.

An FBI spokeswoman in Detroit says the incident is being investigated.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091225/ap_on_go_ot/us_airliner_disturbance



Top
  
PostPosted: 12/25/09 12:21 pm • # 2 
It was a non-stop flight that originated in Amsterdam. Perhaps you should direct your outrage at the authorities in Amsterdam responsible for security screening of passengers.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 12/25/09 12:57 pm • # 3 
Editorialist

Joined: 08/04/09
Posts: 660
The point of origin is not relevent to my "outrage." (I'd describe it more as "sneering disgust"), as it is the fact that explosive materials were able to be carried onto an airlliner, and arrived on US soil.

My comment was more of an expression of "why bother?" with all the hysteria about how effective our security is supposed to be. We just seem to keep looking more ridiculous by pretending we are competent or in control of our own destiny.

Lying about our abilities and accomplishments seems to be the only way we can claim to be effective in dealing with governing problems, foreign or domestic. Saying it doesn't make it so.

Have a nice day.

jd


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 12/25/09 2:11 pm • # 4 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
Apparently NOT firecrackers, as originally reported ~ Image ~ Sooz


Officials: Possible terror attack on Northwest jet

Nigerian who allegedly tried to ignite powder on flight claims al-Qaida ties

Breaking News
msnbc.com and NBC News
updated 17 minutes ago

ROMULUS, Mich. - A Nigerian man claiming ties to al-Qaida tried to light a powder aboard a commercial jetliner before it landed Friday in Detroit in what senior U.S. officials called an attempted act of terrorism.

"He appears to have had some kind of incendiary device he tried to ignite," a senior U.S. official told NBC News. Other officials said the explosive device was a mixture of powder and liquid, which failed when the passenger tried to detonate it during the plane's descent into Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport.

Two people noticed the attempted attack, and a third person jumped on the man and subdued him, an airline official told NBC News. The man was being treated at the burn unit of the University of Michigan Medical Center in Ann Arbor, officials said.

Federal officials identified the man as Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, of Nigeria, who was traveling one way, without a return ticket.

Rep. Peter King of New York, the senior Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee, who was briefed on the incident, said Abdulmutallab was known in federal counterterrorism files and may have been on the government's list of suspicious passengers banned from flying in the United States.

King said the incident raised troubling questions about airline security. "It must be looked into" how Abdulmutallab was able to sneak a "somewhat sophisticated device" on board, he said.

Abdulmutallab told investigators that he wanted to set off a bomb over the United States and claimed to be connected to al-Qaida, the terrorism network responsible for the attacks that killed more than 3,000 people in the United States on Sept. 11, 2001, counterterrorism officials said.

A counterterrorism official said Abdulmutallab, who was subdued by the crew of Northwest Air Lines Flight 253 from Amsterdam, left Lagos, Nigeria, on Thursday and boarded the flight in Amsterdam on Friday.

The timing of the attempted attack could be significant. It was eight years ago this week that a similar attempted attack was launched by a British member of al-Qaida who tried to blow up a flight from Paris to Miami by igniting explosives in his shoes. And the attempted attack comes on the same day that the Taliban released a video of a
U.S. soldier it is holding captive in Afghanistan.

News organizations, including msnbc.com, initially reported that the government had raised the terrorism alert for flights after the incident. Those reports were inaccurate; the flight alert had been at orange before the incident.

Passengers removed, rescreened
There was nothing out of the ordinary until Flight 253, an Airbus 330 carrying 278 passengers, was on final approach to Detroit. Although the jet bore the insignia of Delta Airlines, it was operated by Northwest.

Then came the disturbance in the passenger cabin, and that is when the pilot declared an emergency, said Elizabeth Isham Cory, a spokeswoman for the Federal Aviation Administration. Cory said in an e-mail message. The plane landed without incident at 11:51 a.m. ET.

The Transportation Security Administration reported that the plane had been taken to a remote area of Detroit Metropolitan Airport and that all passengers had left the plane and were rescreened, along with all the luggage on the flight. In addition, all passengers were interviewed, a TSA statement said, before they were allowed to go on their way.

Syed Jafri, a U.S. citizen who was on the plane flying from the United Arab Emirates, said he was seated three rows behind the passenger and saw a glow and noticed the smell of smoke. Then, he said, "a young man behind me jumped on him."

"Next thing you know, there was a lot of panic," Jafri said.

President Barack Obama, who is on vacation in Hawaii, was informed of the incident Friday morning by his National Security Council staff, said Bill Burton, a spokesman for the White House.

An interagency meeting of senior intelligence, law enforcement and security was convened out of Washington to discuss the incident and possible measures to ensure that there no similar attacks, Burton said. Officials would not discuss the security measures, but they said passengers across the country should expect some delays Friday night.

U.S. counterterrorism officials are particularly concerned in light of the 2006 London airline plot, in which British and Pakistani nationals conspired to carry out multiple suicide bombings on board trans-Atlantic flights.

In addition, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the accused mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, and his cousin Ramzi Yousef were accused of plotting in 1995 to take down multiple airliners over the Pacific Ocean using explosive devices hidden in airliner lavatories.

Meanwhile, the response to the attempted attack Friday created an unusual tableau for people around the airport.

"I don't ever recall seeing a plane on that runway ever before, and I pass by there frequently," said J.P. Karas, 55, of Wyandotte, Mich., who was driving down a road near the airport when he spotted the jet, surrounded by police cars, an ambulance, a bus and some TV trucks.

Karas said that it was difficult to tell what was going on but that it looked as though the plane's front wheel was off the runway.

By Robert Windrem of NBC News and Alex Johnson of msnbc.com with Jay Blackman, Catherine Corrigan, Dave Forman, Scott Foster and Kip Whitlock of NBC News. NBC station WDIV-TV of Detroit contributed to this report.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34592031/ns ... ?GT1=43001



Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 12/25/09 2:37 pm • # 5 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
there is no way to stop terrorism, and there is only one way to attenuate it.

clue: when was the last terrorist attack on Costa Rica?


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 12/25/09 3:30 pm • # 6 
Editorialist

Joined: 08/04/09
Posts: 660
Mac,

Could it possibly have to do with discontinuing behavior that is likely to make other countries have a strong desire to blow us up?


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 12/25/09 7:42 pm • # 7 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
Jeannedeurk1 wrote:
Mac,

Could it possibly have to do with discontinuing behavior that is likely to make other countries have a strong desire to blow us up?

bingo. a qewpie to the lady in blue!


Last edited by macroscopic on 12/25/09 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
PostPosted: 12/29/09 7:43 am • # 8 
Quote:
The timing of the attempted attack could be significant.

Well, of course it is. Scaring passengers out of wanting to fly on major holidays is a great way to further cripple the economy and the airline industries. Not to mention they're guaranteed all flights are going to be full and more people will notice when they're stranded in airports while security gets tightened again.

And, since we have the other thread on profiling, how does ANYONE get on a plane nowadays with only a single one-way ticket and not get the extra special screening treatment? Isn't that supposed to be THE big thing security watches for? Not just the business traveler with a series of one-way tickets that eventually returns them home, but those traveling with no return ticket? Isn't that suspicious on several levels to be traveling one-way with no return ticket to a foreign country?


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 12/31/09 4:27 pm • # 9 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
Calluna wrote:
Quote:
The timing of the attempted attack could be significant.

Well, of course it is. Scaring passengers out of wanting to fly on major holidays is a great way to further cripple the economy and the airline industries. Not to mention they're guaranteed all flights are going to be full and more people will notice when they're stranded in airports while security gets tightened again.

And, since we have the other thread on profiling, how does ANYONE get on a plane nowadays with only a single one-way ticket and not get the extra special screening treatment? Isn't that supposed to be THE big thing security watches for? Not just the business traveler with a series of one-way tickets that eventually returns them home, but those traveling with no return ticket? Isn't that suspicious on several levels to be traveling one-way with no return ticket to a foreign country?
not really. i often do "open loop returns" both inside and outside the US. and yes, i get harassed every time i do it.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/01/10 11:43 am • # 10 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/04/09
Posts: 4072

Thisis what I've been thinking about the Nigerian malcontent and the media hoorah over him setting fire to his legs. David Brooks wrote it in the New York Times yesterday.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/01/opinion/01brooks.html?hp

During the middle third of the 20th century, Americans had impressive faith in their own institutions. It was not because these institutions always worked well. The Congress and the Federal Reserve exacerbated the Great Depression. The military made horrific mistakes during World War II, which led to American planes bombing American troops and American torpedoes sinking ships with American prisoners of war.

But there was a realistic sense that human institutions are necessarily flawed. History is not knowable or controllable. People should be grateful for whatever assistance that government can provide and had better do what they can to be responsible for their own fates.

That mature attitude seems to have largely vanished. Now we seem to expect perfection from government and then throw temper tantrums when it is not achieved. We seem to be in the position of young adolescents - who believe mommy and daddy can take care of everything, and then grow angry and cynical when it becomes clear they can't.

After Sept. 11, we Americans indulged our faith in the god of technocracy. We expanded the country's information-gathering capacities so that the National Security Agency alone now gathers four times more data each day than is contained in the Library of Congress.

We set up protocols to convert that information into a form that can be processed by computers and bureaucracies. We linked agencies and created new offices. We set up a centralized focal point, the National Counterterrorism Center.

All this money and technology seems to have reduced the risk of future attack. But, of course, the system is bound to fail sometimes. Reality is unpredictable, and no amount of computer technology is going to change that. Bureaucracies are always blind because they convert the rich flow of personalities and events into crude notations that can be filed and collated. Human institutions are always going to miss crucial clues because the information in the universe is infinite and events do not conform to algorithmic regularity.

Resilient societies have a level-headed understanding of the risks inherent in this kind of warfare.

But, of course, this is not how the country has reacted over the past week. There have been outraged calls for Secretary Janet Napolitano of the Department of Homeland Security to resign, as if changing the leader of the bureaucracy would fix the flaws inherent in the bureaucracy. There have been demands for systemic reform - for more protocols, more layers and more review systems.

Much of the criticism has been contemptuous and hysterical. Various experts have gathered bits of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's biography. Since they can string the facts together to accurately predict the past, they thunder, the intelligence services should have been able to connect the dots to predict the future.

Dick Cheney argues that the error was caused by some ideological choice. Arlen Specter screams for more technology - full-body examining devices. "We thought that had been remedied," said Senator Kit Bond, as if omniscience could be accomplished with legislation.

Many people seem to be in the middle of a religious crisis of faith. All the gods they believe in - technology, technocracy, centralized government control - have failed them in this instance.

In a mature nation, President Obama could go on TV and say, "Listen, we're doing the best we can, but some terrorists are bound to get through." But this is apparently a country that must be spoken to in childish ways. The original line out of the White House was that the system worked. Don't worry, little Johnny.

When that didn't work the official line went to the other extreme. "I consider that totally unacceptable," Obama said. I'm really mad, Johnny. But don't worry, I'll make it all better.

Meanwhile, the Transportation Security Administration has to be seen doing something, so it added another layer to its stage play, "Security Theater" - more baggage regulations, more in-flight restrictions.

At some point, it's worth pointing out that it wasn't the centralized system that stopped terrorism in this instance. As with the shoe bomber, as with the plane that went down in Shanksville, Pa., it was decentralized citizen action. The plot was foiled by nonexpert civilians who had the advantage of the concrete information right in front of them - and the spirit to take the initiative.

For better or worse, over the past 50 years we have concentrated authority in centralized agencies and reduced the role of decentralized citizen action. We've done this in many spheres of life. Maybe that's wise, maybe it's not. But we shouldn't imagine that these centralized institutions are going to work perfectly or even well most of the time. It would be nice if we reacted to their inevitable failures not with rabid denunciation and cynicism, but with a little resiliency, an awareness that human systems fail and bad things will happen and we don't have to lose our heads every time they do.



Top
  
PostPosted: 01/01/10 12:07 pm • # 11 
There will be people who get through. There are already people here who want to do us harm including our homegrown idiots. This guy should not have gotten through. I really don't know what stronger evidence you can have to put someone on the no fly list than to have their Muslim family report he is a danger.

What technology is there to show a 6 inch pack of explosives in the crotch of someone's underwear? I have no problem with using that technology.

Ok, I have to do this for friends no longer with us. There is no way Sammy could have resisted this. This could be our new security question.

"Is that explosives in your crotch or are you just happy to see me?"


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/01/10 12:27 pm • # 12 
LOL! Katy.

Al Qaeda obviously orchestrated attacks for the holiday season. The CIA killings in Afghanistan and this plane. Probably other planes, too. It's hard to defend against everything all the time. It's also hard to defend against enemies who don't wear uniforms.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/01/10 2:30 pm • # 13 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
LMAO ~ yep, Katy ~ I can hear it ~ the guys all shared that "black humor" ~ too funny!

Sooz



Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/01/10 2:43 pm • # 14 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
gramps, that Brooks opinion is a terrific read ~ altho I'm not sure we can plan for or rely on "decentralized citizen action" ~ along similar lines, you might enjoy reading the articles in my posts 10 and 13 in the "The return of terror politics" thread ~

Sooz


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/01/10 4:01 pm • # 15 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/04/09
Posts: 4072
I did enjoy them.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/01/10 4:28 pm • # 16 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/04/09
Posts: 4072
I think we should employ the best technology available in as many places as possible. I think that is now the "backscatter x-ray", according to something in the paper today. Problem is, we're only one country. We have no control over air traffic that doesn't doesn't begin or end in the US. And little conrol over flights originating elsewhere and landing in the US. AS the world gets nuttier and nuttier the problem will become insoluble. And the world is definitely getting nuttier all the time.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/02/10 3:43 am • # 17 
Administrator

Joined: 01/16/16
Posts: 30003
grampatom wrote:
I think we should employ the best technology available in as many places as possible. I think that is now the "backscatter x-ray", according to something in the paper today. Problem is, we're only one country. We have no control over air traffic that doesn't doesn't begin or end in the US. And little conrol over flights originating elsewhere and landing in the US. AS the world gets nuttier and nuttier the problem will become insoluble. And the world is definitely getting nuttier all the time.
Technology won't "save" many USian butts. OTOH, a change of attitude towards others could go a long way.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/02/10 3:44 am • # 18 
Administrator

Joined: 01/16/16
Posts: 30003
Good Grief, we are the laughingstock of the world...

To put it mildly. [img]/domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif[/img]


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/02/10 3:48 am • # 19 
Administrator

Joined: 01/16/16
Posts: 30003
We have no control over air traffic that doesn't doesn't begin or end in the US. And little conrol over flights originating elsewhere and landing in the US. AS the world gets nuttier and nuttier the problem will become insoluble.

Cannot comment about other countries but one must go through US Customs (security) for flights to the US originating in Canada.


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

  Page 1 of 1   [ 19 posts ] New Topic Add Reply

All times are UTC - 6 hours



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
© Voices or Choices.
All rights reserved.