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PostPosted: 12/30/09 3:57 pm • # 1 
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Interesting ~ I've never understood the real role or value of "superdelegates" ~ other than to create confusion ~ Image ~ Sooz



A key feature of the 2008 presidential primaries may be on its way out

During the race for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination, a previously-unknown group was suddenly all anyone in politics could talk about. The superdelegates -- a group of elected Democrats and Democratic National Committee officials -- held the votes that would decide the party's nominee. Though practically no one even knew they existed before the race began, by the end, the undeclared superdelegates' every cough was carefully studied.

Next time around, though, things are likely to be different. The Democratic Change Commission, a group created by the DNC to study the primary process, said Wednesday that it was recommending what amounts to the elimination of superdelegates.

If the commission's recommendation is approved by the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee, superdelegates would still have a vote; they just wouldn't have a choice about whom it went to. They'd be bound to go along with the state they represent.

Something like this has been coming for a while -- really, since around the time that Barack Obama officially became his party's nominee. Just before the Democratic convention, the campaign
announced that it would ask the DNC to form the commission, and a reduction in the number of superdelegates was to be its primary focus. As is traditional, now that he's president, Obama and his people control the DNC, so it's no surprise the outcome of the commission's study would be something like this.

That said, though, it's unlikely that this change will have any impact for Obama himself. It's very rare for a sitting president to face real opposition in a party primary. But 2016 is going to be a whole different ballgame.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_ ... index.html



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PostPosted: 12/30/09 4:04 pm • # 2 
Al Gore in 2016!


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PostPosted: 12/30/09 5:20 pm • # 3 
Superdelegates were created to provide the party leadership with a voice in the nomination process. It's a very important component of the nomination process, but as with many things, the Democratic party is heading down the wrong path.


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PostPosted: 12/30/09 5:25 pm • # 4 
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yeah, democracy sucks. down with democracy!


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PostPosted: 12/30/09 5:43 pm • # 5 
I think the more appropriate declaration would be, "Down with Democrats!" Image


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PostPosted: 12/30/09 6:07 pm • # 6 
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gopqed wrote:
I think the more appropriate declaration would be, "Down with Democrats!" Image

agreed. the Democratic party is mildly republican. however, in this respect, the Republican party is far worse.


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PostPosted: 12/30/09 6:14 pm • # 7 
Why are you a Republican, then?


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PostPosted: 12/30/09 6:18 pm • # 8 
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gopqed wrote:
Why are you a Republican, then?

for several reasons. first of all, the GOP fielded the best candidate in the race for the financial crisis, imo.
secondly, it is really entertaining getting the emails and seeing, from the inside, what the GOP is up to.
and finally, i love being able to say i am a registered Republican on the boards. it shuts a lot of yellers up.


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PostPosted: 12/30/09 6:19 pm • # 9 
So you're a subversive. Image


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PostPosted: 12/30/09 6:20 pm • # 10 
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gopqed wrote:
Why are you a Republican, then?

by the way, i never claimed that i had a problem with the GOP per se. i only said that they are less democratic than the Democratic party.

there are two competing views of Democracy: populist and elitist. i think both parties are elitist, but the GOP is far more so.


Last edited by macroscopic on 12/30/09 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 12/30/09 6:22 pm • # 11 
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gopqed wrote:
So you're a subversive. Image

well, my political positioning is somewhat difficult to describe. i would be dishonest if i said that explaining it to Republicans was more difficult.


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PostPosted: 12/30/09 6:29 pm • # 12 
macroscopic wrote:
gopqed wrote:
Why are you a Republican, then?

by the way, i never claimed that i had a problem with the GOP per se. i only said that they are less democratic than the Democratic party.

there are two competing views of Democracy: populist and elitist. i think both parties are elitist, but the GOP is far more so.


How is the Republican Party less democratic than the Democratic Party?

I've always been a proponent of a nomination process that has a stronger party leadership role because I believe, and there is ample evidence to support my view, that it generally produces stronger political leaders as candidates, and ultimately better Presidents. Since the nominating processes for both parties have devolved into primary-dominated contests, the emphasis has been placed on producing candidates who are better campaigners rather than better political leaders, and the quality of Presidents has declined.


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PostPosted: 12/30/09 6:36 pm • # 13 
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How is the Republican Party less democratic than the Democratic Party?

i think this thread is a good illustration of it.

I've always been a proponent of a nomination process that has a stronger party leadership role because I believe, and there is ample evidence to support my view, that it generally produces stronger political leaders as candidates, and ultimately better Presidents.

i don't even know what this means, or why it should be important to anyone other than a partisan.

Since the nominating processes for both parties have devolved into primary-dominated contests, the emphasis has been placed on producing candidates who are better campaigners rather than better political leaders, and the quality of Presidents has declined.

i am for dispensing with the primary system, as you are well aware.


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PostPosted: 12/31/09 1:09 am • # 14 
screw the super delegates.

1 person, 1 vote.

The nominations should be the will of the people, not some super duper delegate.


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PostPosted: 12/31/09 2:35 am • # 15 
the monster wrote:
screw the super delegates.

1 person, 1 vote.

The nominations should be the will of the people, not some super duper delegate.


The superdelegates are people, too, and gained their status by virtue of their position within the party. Their votes have no more weight or significance than any other delegates, and do nothing to subvert any "will of the people" as they are a part of those people. The only difference from any other delegate is that they are given an automatic delegate seat on the basis of their leadership role, and are given "uncommitted" status because they weren't selected through the process other delegates for their state go through. They have the same ability to decide who they are going to support for the nomination as any other delegate to the convention - the only difference is that they do not state their candidate preference prior to their selection as a delegate. The only time the "superdelegates" have any voice in the selection of a candidate is when there is no clear "will of the people" because the results of the primary/caucus process didn't produce a candidate with enough delegates to secure the nomination.

Also, you're engaging in a kind of mixed metaphor when you cite "one person, one vote" in this context, as that principle has nothing to do with the nomination process. The "one man, one vote" principle (because the phrase was coined in 1964) was stated by the Supreme Court when it ruled that state legislative districts must be drawn with substantially equal populations, rather than on the basis of geographical or political subdivisions.


Last edited by gopqed on 12/31/09 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 12/31/09 2:47 am • # 16 
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Screw all of them. I think the U.S. should become a colony of Canada. Er...but let us get rid of Harper first.Image

We have ways of making you accept universal healthcare.....bwahahahahaha


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PostPosted: 12/31/09 4:58 am • # 17 
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green apple tree wrote:
Screw all of them. I think the U.S. should become a colony of Canada. Er...but let us get rid of Harper first.Image

We have ways of making you accept universal healthcare.....bwahahahahaha
Screw the U.S. as the next province. We want Cuba first. We need a nice in-country warm spot during the winter. Of course Quebeccers will root for Florida but that's just because they own the place and are contrarians.


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PostPosted: 12/31/09 8:41 pm • # 18 
gopqed wrote:
the monster wrote:
screw the super delegates.

1 person, 1 vote.

The nominations should be the will of the people, not some super duper delegate.


The superdelegates are people, too, and gained their status by virtue of their position within the party. Their votes have no more weight or significance than any other delegates, and do nothing to subvert any "will of the people" as they are a part of those people. The only difference from any other delegate is that they are given an automatic delegate seat on the basis of their leadership role, and are given "uncommitted" status because they weren't selected through the process other delegates for their state go through. They have the same ability to decide who they are going to support for the nomination as any other delegate to the convention - the only difference is that they do not state their candidate preference prior to their selection as a delegate. The only time the "superdelegates" have any voice in the selection of a candidate is when there is no clear "will of the people" because the results of the primary/caucus process didn't produce a candidate with enough delegates to secure the nomination.

Also, you're engaging in a kind of mixed metaphor when you cite "one person, one vote" in this context, as that principle has nothing to do with the nomination process. The "one man, one vote" principle (because the phrase was coined in 1964) was stated by the Supreme Court when it ruled that state legislative districts must be drawn with substantially equal populations, rather than on the basis of geographical or political subdivisions.

I don't like the delegate thing at all. I think it should go by popular vote, period.

1 person, 1 vote.


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PostPosted: 01/01/10 4:07 am • # 19 
The overall nomination process isn't an election, per se - it's a series of state contests to select the delegates to the national convention for each state. One of the things the delegates do at the convention is select the nominees for President and Vice-President. States are awarded delegates based on a number of factors, including how the state performed for the party in the previous Presidential election. There is no "equivalence" of votes to be made across state lines, or often even across Congressional district lines within a state, as different Congressional districts are awarded different numbers of delegates.

The "one person, one vote" principle simply doesn't apply to the nominating process. It's not a popular vote contest, or Clinton would have been the Democrats' nominee last year as she ended up with more popular votes than Obama.


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PostPosted: 01/01/10 8:06 am • # 20 
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The overall nomination process isn't an election, per se - it's a series of state contests to select the delegates to the national convention for each state.

it prevents rapid change from taking place. it also prevents minority parties from entering the fray. in other words, it is structurally undemocratic.


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PostPosted: 01/01/10 8:51 am • # 21 
The major party nomination processes don't prevent minor parties from selecting candidates for the Presidency.


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PostPosted: 01/01/10 8:55 am • # 22 
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gopqed wrote:
The major party nomination processes don't prevent minor parties from selecting candidates for the Presidency.

nope. it only inhibits their ability to be elected. which is functionally the same thing.

furthermore, the lack of direct electing prevents candidates like Ron Paul from ever getting a presidential vote.


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PostPosted: 01/01/10 9:32 am • # 23 

The thing that prevents minor party candidates from getting elected is their lack of appeal to the broad electorate, and the thing that keeps Ron Paul from getting votes for President is his inability to appeal to enough voters in the Republican primaries to win the nomination.

As it was, I think he finished second to McCain in the 2008 convention. Image



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PostPosted: 01/01/10 9:33 am • # 24 
And the major party nominting processes don't do anything to keep minor party candidates from being elected President - that's their own doing.


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PostPosted: 01/01/10 4:25 pm • # 25 
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gopqed wrote:

The thing that prevents minor party candidates from getting elected is their lack of appeal to the broad electorate, and the thing that keeps Ron Paul from getting votes for President is his inability to appeal to enough voters in the Republican primaries to win the nomination.

As it was, I think he finished second to McCain in the 2008 convention. Image

that is nonsense, gop. utter rubbish. the reason factionalism cannot form in the US is that the electoral process has no runoffis. and because the process demands unanimity, third partys cannot effectively gain prominence.


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