It is currently 04/11/25 6:32 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Go to page 1, 2  Next   Page 1 of 2   [ 38 posts ]
Author Message
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/21/10 4:30 am • # 1 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
This decision disappoints and disgusts me ~ what American politics do NOT need is an influx of unfettered cash ~ I deeply believe the mega dollars flowing into campaigns is obscene ~ I'll try to find more on this decision ~ Sooz


January 21, 2010
Posted: January 21st, 2010 10:10 AM ET

Washington (CNN) - The U.S. Supreme Court has eased long-standing restrictions on "independent spending" by corporations and unions in political campaigns.

Thursday's landmark ruling, which overhauls decades of federal restrictions, has the potential to lead to a dramatic increase in campaign spending.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... -spending/



Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/21/10 4:40 am • # 2 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
Image ~ Sooz




Top
  
PostPosted: 01/21/10 5:45 am • # 3 
This is a good decision by the Supreme Court, protecting First Amendment rights.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/21/10 5:57 am • # 4 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112

I disagree ~ this does nothing more than create new "special interest" lobbyists with BIG cash ~ I am strongly in favor of LIMITING, not increasing, campaign spending ~

Sooz



Top
  
PostPosted: 01/21/10 6:42 am • # 5 
It doesn't create anything new. This applies only to independent expenditures, and doesn't affect existing prohibitions on corporate and union contributions to candidates' campaigns.

How does allowing a corporation to buy an ad saying, "Vote for Angus McGee, and criminals will have a cow" create a problem? It's simply an expression of a political viewpoint, an act that is expressly protected by the First Amendment.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/21/10 6:53 am • # 6 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
Sorry, gop, but saying "It doesn't create anything new" is BS ~ you'll never convince me this is "innocuous" OR innocent ~ I do NOT consider the Hillary movie, which was the original basis for this suit, and a billboard as legitimately comparable ~ I also do NOT view a corporation as an "individual" and therefore don't see corporations as falling within the First Amendment ~ I've never been a corporatist, and these last several years have cemented that for me ~ I see this as opening the floodgates of cash for special interests ~

Sooz


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/21/10 7:00 am • # 7 
Quote:
I also do NOT view a corporation as an "individual" and therefore don't see corporations as falling within the First Amendment


The First Amendment doesn't apply only to individuals.

Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/21/10 7:01 am • # 8 
This decision merely invalidates a law that abridges the freedom of speech.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/21/10 1:03 pm • # 9 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112

Only surprise here is the prominent Rs that agree this is a bad decision ~ Sooz


By Think Progress at 1:38 pm

GOP Is Overjoyed At The Unprecedented Influence Corporations Will Now Have In Federal Campaigns

During the 2008 presidential campaign, the conservative group Citizens United made a movie critical of Hillary Clinton but was barred from distributing it on local cable systems because federal courts said it "looked and sounded like a long campaign ad, and therefore should be regulated like one." The Supreme Court then took up the case and in its much-anticipated decision, today ruled 5-4 to allow corporations and unions to spend unlimited funds in support for, or opposition of, federal candidates. The monumental ruling throws out a "a 63-year-old law designed to restrain the influence of big business and unions on elections.

One Republican attorney said that the new ruling basically turns the political landscape into the "Wild Wild West." Another GOP election lawyer said that the ruling represents "a huge sea-change in campaign finance law. The Court went all the way. It really relieves any restrictions on corporate spending on independent advertising."

As Common Cause noted, the ruling "will enhance the ability of the deepest-pocketed special interests to influence elections and the U.S. Congress." U.S. PIRG called it a "shocking burst of judicial activism" that treats corporations "in the same manner as ordinary citizens." Fred Wertheimer of Democracy 21 said the ruling will "create unprecedented opportunities for corporate 'influence-buying' corruption."

The ruling is a giant win for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the big corporations, which tend to donate heavily to Republicans. Many Republicans have therefore come out and praised today's decision:

Quote:

- Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX): "It is about a nonprofit group's ability to speak about the public issue. I can't think of a more fundamental First Amendment issue. … [The ruling could] open up resources that have not previously been available [for Republicans]." [NYT]

- Rep. Steve King (R-IA): "The Constitution protects the rights of citizens and employers to express their viewpoints on political issues. Today's Supreme Court decision affirms the Bill of Rights and is a victory for liberty and free speech." [Statement]

- Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN): "If the freedom of speech means anything, it means protecting the right of private citizens to voice opposition or support for their elected representatives. The fact that the Court overturned a 20-year precedent speaks volumes about the importance of this issue." [Statement]

- Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY): The court took a step toward "restoring the First Amendment rights [of corporations and unions]. … By previously denying this right, the government was picking winners and losers." [AP]

- RNC Chairman Michael Steele: "Today's decision by the Supreme Court in Citizens United v. FEC, serves as an affirmation of the constitutional rights provided to Americans under the first amendment. Free speech strengthens our democracy." [Statement]

- Senate Candidate Marco Rubio: "Today's SCOTUS decision on McCain-Feingold is a victory for free speech." [Statement]

The Court's ruling also struck down part of the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform legislation "that barred union- and corporate-paid issue ads in the closing days of election campaigns." Sen. Russ Feingold called the Court's ruling a "terrible mistake," but pointed out that it "does not affect McCain-Feingold's soft money ban, which will continue to prevent corporate contributions to the political parties from corrupting the political process." "The Supreme Court chose to roll back laws that have limited the role of corporate money in federal elections since Teddy Roosevelt was president," he said. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) reacted similarly, saying he was "disappointed" in the decision.

Update: Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL) called the today's ruling the "worst Supreme Court decision since the Dred Scott case." First Read observes that in this case, Chief Justice John Roberts seemed to step beyond his promise to act like an umpire "to call balls and strikes and not to pitch or bat."

Update:
Statement from President Obama: "With its ruling today, the Supreme Court has given a green light to a new stampede of special interest money in our politics. It is a major victory for big oil, Wall Street banks, health insurance companies and the other powerful interests that marshal their power every day in Washington to drown out the voices of everyday Americans. This ruling gives the special interests and their lobbyists even more power in Washington--while undermining the influence of average Americans who make small contributions to support their preferred candidates. That's why I am instructing my Administration to get to work immediately with Congress on this issue. We are going to talk with bipartisan Congressional leaders to develop a forceful response to this decision. The public interest requires nothing less."

Update:
Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) told the Huffington Post that she finds the ruling "regrettable" and "disappointing."

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/21/gop ... ns-united/


Last edited by sooz06 on 01/21/10 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/21/10 1:12 pm • # 10 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
This represents my own opinion ~ I agree that it is "... wrong to claim that this is a case about free speech. Prior to Citizens United, no law prohibited anyone from saying anything they wanted." ~ Sooz


In what could prove to be the most consequential Supreme Court decision in decades, all five of the Court's conservatives joined together today to invalidate a sixty-three year-old ban on corporate money in federal elections. In the process, the Court overruled a twenty year-old precedent permitting such bans on corporate electioneering; and it ignored the protests of the four more moderate justices in dissent. As Justice John Paul Stevens wrote for the dissenters:

Quote:

Today's decision is backwards in many senses. It elevates the majority's agenda over the litigants' submissions, facial attacks over as-applied claims, broad constitutional theories over narrow statutory grounds, individual dissenting opinions over precedential holdings, assertion over tradition, absolutism over empiricism, rhetoric over reality. Our colleagues have arrived at the conclusion that Austin must be overruled and that §203 is facially unconstitutional only after mischaracterizing both the reach and rationale of those authorities, and after bypassing or ignoring rules of judicial restraint used to cabin the Court's lawmaking power. … At bottom, the Court's opinion is thus a rejection of the common sense of the American people, who have recognized a need to prevent corporations from undermining self government since the founding, and who have fought against the distinctive corrupting potential of corporate electioneering since the days of Theodore Roosevelt. It is a strange time to repudiate that common sense. While American democracy is imperfect, few outside the majority of this Court would have thought its flaws included a dearth of corporate money in politics.

The majority, for its part, claimed that corporate political spending must be protected to prevent "taking the right to speak from some and giving it to others," but they are simply wrong to claim that this is a case about free speech. Prior to Citizens United, no law prohibited anyone from saying anything they wanted. Corporate CEOs and other wealthy individuals could spend their own massive salaries to run political ads on TV. People who are less rich than corporate CEOs could pool their money together via organizations. The only thing that wasn't permitted before Citizens United is that the CEO of Bank of America could not tap into Bank of America's massive, multi-billion dollar treasury to defeat any lawmaker who thinks that TARP banks should pay back the federal government after it took expensive and unprecedented steps to prevent a total collapse of the U.S. banking system.

Ultimately, however, today's decision does far more than simply provide Fortune 500 companies with a massive megaphone to blast their political views to the masses; it also empowers them to drown out any voices that disagree with them. In 2008, the Obama and McCain campaigns combined spent just over $1.1 billion, an enormous, record-breaking sum at the time. $1.1 billion is nothing, however, compared to the billions of dollars in tax subsidies given to the oil industry every year, or the $117 billion fee President Obama wants to impose on the Wall Street bankers who created the Great Recession. Indeed, with hundreds of billions of dollars of corporate profits at stake every time Congress begins a session, wealthy corporations would be foolish not to spend tens of billions of dollars every election cycle to make sure that their interests are protected. No one, including the candidates themselves, have the ability to compete with such giant expenditures.

The good news is that lawmakers are already considering ways to mitigate the damage caused by Citizens United, and a number of options exist, such as requiring additional disclosures by corporations engaged in electioneering, empowering shareholders to demand that their investment not be spent to advance candidates they disapprove of, or possibly even requiring shareholders to approve a corporation's decision to influence an election before the company may do so. At the end of the day, however, many extremely well-moneyed corporations will still succeed in unleashing their treasuries on the electorate, and drowning out opposing voices.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/21/citizens-united/



Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/21/10 2:09 pm • # 11 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
F(*K
THIS
RULING


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/21/10 3:03 pm • # 12 
No question... it really sucks.


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/21/10 3:10 pm • # 13 
You guys can always get together and work to repeal the First Amendment.


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/21/10 3:20 pm • # 14 
I am absolutely positive that your founding fathers never intended the first amendment to be an instrument with which to bludgeon the people. They had no way of predicting the pervasive nature of modern mass communication. You can continue to play the role of the right-wing apologist all you want Gopqed - that's your perogative. But others know there is line between what is legal and what is moral. To me, there is no question that what these corporations have been unleashed to do may be legal, but it is also immoral.

This week has given me a greater appreciation for having the great priviledge of having been born in Canada. You country seems to be taking giant steps backwards.


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/21/10 3:25 pm • # 15 
How is exercising the freedom of expression immoral?


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/21/10 3:49 pm • # 16 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
gopqed wrote:
You guys can always get together and work to repeal the First Amendment.

if XOM diverted 1% of it's profits to McCain last year, it would have doubled his war chest. you are either naiive or an imbicile to think that anyone here can compete with that. no offense.

and just to add a footnote to your zinger, gop, i am sure that Coors is working on rewriting our constitution to save us the trouble. when they round up moderates like you, who will speak for you?


Last edited by macroscopic on 01/21/10 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/21/10 3:50 pm • # 17 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
gopqed wrote:
How is exercising the freedom of expression immoral?

the corporation is a sociopath. to have sociopaths with 1,000,000 times the political capital as average citizens may not be immoral, but i am having trouble finding the right word to describe it.


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/21/10 4:02 pm • # 18 
They must be paying him a pretty penny to tow the party line, eh mac? [img]/domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif[/img]


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/21/10 4:05 pm • # 19 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
Sidartha wrote:
They must be paying him a pretty penny to tow the party line, eh mac? [img]/domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif[/img]

i am having a hard time reasoning how anyone who cares about populism could view this as anything other than a major defeat for (that sort of) democracy.


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/21/10 4:08 pm • # 20 
I'm having a hard time believing "America; land of the free and home of the brave." It's becoming "land of the rich and home of the loud."

That actually reminds me of a joke I once read...


Top
  
PostPosted: 01/22/10 3:08 am • # 21 
You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill.

This decision only applies to independent expenditures, uncoordinated with candidate campaigns. Corporations and unions will still be unable to contribute to candidate campaigns, PAC's and parties.

There is every opportunity now for legal requirements to be put in place that would require shareholder approval of corporate decisions and membership approval of untion decisions to back candidates. Disclosure laws would easily identify for voters who is running ads. Information is key, and if it's available to voters they will take note of it.

There are very powerful reasons that large, prominent corporations who have access to loads of cash will not get involved in candidate advocacy - PR, their customers' reactions and the political consequences of backing a candidate who loses. This decision actually benefits unions who will now have the same opportunity for independent expenditures and whose membership approval for those expenditures will be much more easily achieved. The corporations you're going to see take advantage of this decision are most likely going to be relatively small, closely-held corporations rather than any larger public corporation.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/22/10 3:57 am • # 22 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
gop, I think you are grossly UNDERstating what this ruling enables ~ I maintain the ruling creates a new class of "special interest" lobbyists ~ and here's a sample of other possible "goodies" ~ Sooz


Decision may mean more foreign cash



Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/22/10 4:11 am • # 23 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
And while you and others are extolling the wisdom of giving corporations "a voice", it in fact is allowing only SOME people TWO voices, both an individual and a corporate voice ~ Image ~

Sooz



Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/22/10 4:36 am • # 24 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/04/09
Posts: 4072
There is every opportunity now for legal requirements to be put in place that would require shareholder approval of corporate decisions and membership approval of untion decisions to back candidates. Disclosure laws would easily identify for voters who is running ads.

Would that such laws had a chance in hell of being enacted.


Top
  
 Offline
PostPosted: 01/22/10 4:52 am • # 25 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/16/09
Posts: 14234
sooz08 wrote:
And while you and others are extolling the wisdom of giving corporations "a voice", it in fact is allowing only SOME people TWO voices, both an individual and a corporate voice ~ Image ~

Sooz


actually, it is like one person having a 500MW bullhorn just in case he is not heard with his regular speaking voice.


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Go to page 1, 2  Next   Page 1 of 2   [ 38 posts ] New Topic Add Reply

All times are UTC - 6 hours



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
© Voices or Choices.
All rights reserved.