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PostPosted: 02/13/10 9:38 am • # 1 
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Mark Thiessen was a speech writer for George W. Bush.

I thought this was a war? Since when in war do we worry about killing too many of the enemy?



Dead Terrorists Tell No Tales

Is Barack Obama killing too many bad guys before the U.S. can interrogate them?

BY MARC A. THIESSEN | FEBRUARY 8, 2010

The CIA reportedly succeeded in killing the head of the Pakistani Taliban -- the most recent in a flurry of drone attacks the agency has launched in South Asia and the Middle East. Another strike in Pakistan reportedly took out one of the FBI's most wanted terrorists; another in Pakistan took out a master bomb-maker for the al Qaeda affiliate in the Philippines, Abu Sayyaf; and a strike in Yemen targeted a senior military leader of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the group behind the Christmas Day attack (his fate has yet to be determined).

President Barack Obama's escalation of drone strikes is one area in the counterterrorism fight where he has earned plaudits from even his most vocal critics on the right. Hold the applause. Obama's escalation of the "Predator War" comes at the very same time he has eliminated the CIA's capability to capture senior terrorist leaders alive and interrogate them for information on new attacks. The Predator has become for President Obama what the cruise missile was to President Bill Clinton -- an easy way to appear like he is taking tough action against terrorists, when he is really shying away from the hard decisions needed to protect the United States.

To be sure, unmanned drones are critical in the struggle against al Qaeda. They allow the United States to reach terrorists hiding in remote regions where it would be difficult for special operations forces to reach them, or to act on perishable intelligence when the only choice is to kill a terrorist or lose him. Constantly hovering Predator (or Reaper) drones also have a psychological effect on the enemy, forcing al Qaeda leaders to live in fear and spend time focusing on self-preservation that would otherwise be used planning the next attack. All this is for the good.

The problem is that Obama is increasingly using drone strikes as a substitute for operations to bring terrorist leaders in alive for questioning -- and that is putting the country at risk. As one high-ranking CIA official explained to me, in an interview for my book Courting Disaster, "In the wake of 9/11, [the CIA] put forward a program that had a lethal component to strike back at the people who did this. But the other component was to prevent this kind of catastrophe from happening again. And for that, killing people -- especially killing senior al Qaeda leaders -- is potentially counterproductive in that we can't know or learn of future attacks. You can't kill them all, and you don't want to kill them all from an intelligence standpoint. We needed to know what they knew."

In the years after the 9/11 attacks, the CIA worked with Pakistani and other intelligence services to hunt down senior terrorist leaders and take them in for interrogation. Among those captured were men like Abu Zubaydah, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Ramzi bin al-Shibh, Ammar al-Baluchi, Walid bin Attash, Riduan Isamuddin (aka "Hambali"), Bashir bin Lap, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, Abu Faraj al-Libbi, Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi, and others. In all, about 100 terrorists were detained and questioned by the CIA. And the information they provided helped break up terrorist cells that were planning to blow up the U.S. Consulate in Karachi and the U.S. Marine camp in Djibouti; explode seven airplanes flying across the Atlantic from London to cities in North America; and fly hijacked airplanes into Heathrow Airport, London's financial district, and the Library Tower in Los Angeles.

Today, the Obama administration is no longer attempting to capture men like these alive; it is simply killing them. This may be satisfying, but it comes at a price. With every drone strike that vaporizes a senior al Qaeda leader, actionable intelligence is vaporized along with him. Dead terrorists can't tell you their plans to strike America.

more...   http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/08/dead_terrorists_tell_no_tales


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PostPosted: 02/13/10 9:55 am • # 2 
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clear double standard. and moreover, one that most Republicans never cared about when W was president.


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PostPosted: 02/13/10 11:52 am • # 3 
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I need some help here ~ exactly HOW does this fit with the "Obama is soft on terrorism" mantra we hear being spewed repeatedly?

Sooz


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PostPosted: 02/13/10 11:57 am • # 4 
Kill enough of them and there won't can't be any future attacks - they're dead.


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PostPosted: 02/13/10 1:33 pm • # 5 
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sooz08 wrote:
I need some help here ~ exactly HOW does this fit with the "Obama is soft on terrorism" mantra we hear being spewed repeatedly?

Sooz

Sooz, don't even try to figure that one out. You'll just end up with a headache.


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PostPosted: 02/14/10 3:46 am • # 6 
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So now killing terrorists is a bad thing?

Of course. They're supposed to be tortured and mutilated and then killed.
Sheesh. It's the patriotic Murrican rightie way.


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PostPosted: 02/14/10 4:04 am • # 7 
John59 wrote:
sooz08 wrote:
I need some help here ~ exactly HOW does this fit with the "Obama is soft on terrorism" mantra we hear being spewed repeatedly?

Sooz

Sooz, don't even try to figure that one out. You'll just end up with a headache.
I'm still trying to figure out how Obama manages to knit being a Marxist and a Muslim. Now this.
Slow down righties ffs, give a brother a break here!

Image


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PostPosted: 02/14/10 8:46 am • # 8 
As I've said before I just want us out of there.  However, I do appreciate that Obama uses methods that lessen the chance of our kids dying or being maimed.  I remember some on the left being upset with the drone use when Bush did it.  I approved of it then.  I approve of it now.  I don't want our kids getting killed and hurt when we can use options that work as well but don't put our kids in as much danger. 


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PostPosted: 02/14/10 9:26 am • # 9 
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Right. USians start wars but they aren't allowed to get hurt in the wars they start.
Rather legitinizes flying a plane into the Pentagon... amybe even the WTC since the drones can't differentiate between innocent civilians and terrorists.


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PostPosted: 02/14/10 9:52 am • # 10 

Whoa, oskar.  I won't even get into you making excuses for the terrorists flying planes into the WTC and Pentagon.  The drones don't act and fire on their own..  The intelligence used to decide targets will never be perfect, but the drones don't just fire indiscriminately.  One of the most unfortunate things about war is innocent civilians get killed.  That happens even when drones aren't used.  We were attacked.  Afghanistan and Pakistan supported and gave safe haven to those responsible.  The world supported us going after them.  I don't see that we started that war.  Unfortunately Bush had other plans that I didn't support.  We have lost a lot of kids and a lot are maimed for life.  More will die and be maimed.  Use of drones won't change that.  Getting kids maimed and killed when not necesary will accomplish nothing good.

I also won't get into the sheepy nations that gladly followed Bush into hell.

I also won't apologize for wanting our kids to not die and not be maimed.  I want everyone out of there.  I want the Afghanis to defend themselves.  I want us to stop supporting a corrupt government. 



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PostPosted: 02/14/10 9:56 am • # 11 
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We were attacked

By whom?


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PostPosted: 02/14/10 10:17 am • # 12 

Don't be silly, oskar.  Al Quieda attacked us.  The people responsible, as I said, were supported and given safe haven by Afghanistan and Pakistan (and Saudi Arabia).

Are you sayng we weren't attacked or are you just trying to catch me up on something?  No government attacked us.  The governments do however give safe haven and support to those who did.



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PostPosted: 02/14/10 10:29 am • # 13 
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You'd have a legitimate point if the US didn't give safe haven and support to terrorists.
However, terorrism is a crime, not an act of war and should be treated as such.


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PostPosted: 02/14/10 10:40 am • # 14 
Posted Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:27 PM

Exclusive: A U.S. Intelligence Breakthrough in the Persian Gulf?

Newsweek

By Michael Isikoff and Mark Hosenball

U.S. intelligence officials appear to have obtained access to what could turn out to be a significant trove of phone numbers, photographs and documents detailing the links between Al Qaeda's leaders in northwest Pakistan and the terror group's increasingly menacing affiliate in Yemen, two counter-terrorism sources tell Declassified.

In late January, an Al Qaeda operative headed from Pakistan on his way to Yemen was arrested in the Persian Gulf country of Oman, a U.S. counter-terrorism official confirmed.

There has been no public announcement of the arrest. But in a possible indication of the operative's importance, just a few days later, two postings on a jihadi web forum suggested that Al Qaeda leaders were worried and wanted their "commanders" to take immediate precautions.

The postings stated that the "captured brother" -- identified as a "field commander" named Abdullah Saleh al-Eidan who went by the name of "Barud"- - was "on his way back from Afghanistan" and had been turned over to Saudi authorities.

Even more noteworthy, the postings -written by a fellow Al Qaeda "brother" - reported that Al Eidan had with him 300 "important phone numbers" as well as pictures, names and documents from Afghanistan.

"The brother requested that this information reach the commanders in Yemen and Afghanistan as soon as possible," read one of the postings, which appeared on a web forum known as Fallujah Islamic Forum.  "He also asked.the commanders to change their places of residence and mobile phone numbers as soon as possible."

While unable to confirm the specific figures in the web postings about Eidan's phone numbers and documents, the U.S. counter-terrorism official said that Eidan was in fact an Al Qaeda courier on a mission to Yemen and that his capture was providing "useful" intelligence about the terror group's operations.The official did not provide any details on how Eidan came to be arrested by authorities in Oman.  

It is difficult to assess at this stage how significant the arrest of the Al Qaeda operative may be. But Evan Kohlmann, a counter-terrorism specialist who provides analysis for U.S. government agencies and who first spotted the web postings, told Declassified: "These kind of grabs are not all that common."  "The idea that he would have personnel files on such a large cross section of Al Qaeda fighters is a remarkable gain," said Kohlmann.

At the same time, the capture of Eidan may suggest that the connections between Al Qaeda's central leadership and Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)-as the group's affiliate in Yemen is called-- may be greater than U.S. officials have previously thought.

Just last month, when asked at a White House press briefing what was the most "shocking, stunning thing" he had learned from the administration's review of the Christmas Day bombing incident, John Brennan, President Obama's counter-terrorism advisor, replied: "Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is an extension of Al Qaeda core coming out of Pakistan. We had a strategic sense of sort of where they were going, but we didn't know they had progressed to the point of actually launching individuals here."

Just a few weeks later, Osama bin Laden released a brief audio message-from "Osama to Obama"-in which he praised the attempt to blow up Northwest Flight 253 over Detroit and called bombing suspect Omar Farouk Abdulmutallab a "hero."

At the time, U.S. security officials and others noted that bin Laden didn't actually take credit for ordering the bombing of the Northwest flight.

But the capture of Eidan-and his documents showing the apparent communication flow between Al Qaeda commanders in Afghanistan and Yemen-- could at least raise questions about whether bin Laden or his top confederates may have known more about it in advance than anybody initially suspected.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/archive/2010/02/14/exclusive-a-u-s-intelligence-breakthrough-in-the-persian-gulf.aspx



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PostPosted: 02/14/10 5:45 pm • # 15 
oskar, you crack me up.  lol.  Since the US is so terrible I don't really understand why you want to talk to any of us.  Maybe 3000 of your people will be killed next time and you can show us how to handle it. 


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PostPosted: 02/14/10 7:08 pm • # 16 
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oskar576 wrote:
You'd have a legitimate point if the US didn't give safe haven and support to terrorists.
However, terorrism is a crime, not an act of war and should be treated as such.

there is something far more salient in this than the sloganeering that typically attends this debate.  what terrorists most crave is to be seen as warriors- warriors in an idealogical battle.  treating this as a simple criminal matter deprives them of that.  doing the opposite feeds their cause tremendously. 


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PostPosted: 02/15/10 12:42 am • # 17 
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doing the opposite feeds their cause tremendously

And achieves very little in curbing terrorism.


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PostPosted: 02/15/10 6:01 am • # 18 
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oskar576 wrote:
doing the opposite feeds their cause tremendously

And achieves very little in curbing terrorism.

arguably less than nothing.  indescriminate bombing and drone planes flying into apartments certainly enhnace recruiting efforts.


Last edited by macroscopic on 02/15/10 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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