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 Offline macroscopic
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/06/10 12:14 pm • # 26 
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gopqed wrote:
Just to make it clear to everyone, I've always thought the elimination of the filibuster is a bad idea, regardless of who proposes it.

and i have always felt that the filibuster, except in rare cases, is a bad idea, regardless of who uses it.  ;]
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 Offline Chaos333
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/07/10 4:57 am • # 27 
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how do you think that being assholes would play out for them in 2012?

They'd blame Obama "He wouldn't talk to us! He wouldn't compromise with us! HE screwed you all!", the usual idiots would swallow that lie, and R's win big in 2012. 

You vastly overestimate the voting public. 
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 Offline macroscopic
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/07/10 5:21 am • # 28 
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Chaos333 wrote:
how do you think that being assholes would play out for them in 2012?

They'd blame Obama "He wouldn't talk to us! He wouldn't compromise with us! HE screwed you all!", the usual idiots would swallow that lie, and R's win big in 2012. 

You vastly overestimate the voting public. 

not really.  but i consistently underestimate the power of the conservative media.
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 Offline sooz06
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/07/10 5:27 am • # 29 
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macroscopic wrote:
Chaos333 wrote:
how do you think that being assholes would play out for them in 2012?

They'd blame Obama "He wouldn't talk to us! He wouldn't compromise with us! HE screwed you all!", the usual idiots would swallow that lie, and R's win big in 2012. 

You vastly overestimate the voting public. 

not really.  but i consistently underestimate the power of the conservative media.


I do too, Mac ~ but I'm now seeing it as far more than 'the conservative media' ~ the Rs have honed their messaging to a precise edge, and they stay on message come hell or high water ... or facts and truth ~

Sooz
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 Offline oskar576
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/07/10 12:00 pm • # 30 
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What a great "tax deal".
Obama caved... again.
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 Offline sooz06
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/07/10 12:23 pm • # 31 
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oskar576 wrote:
What a great "tax deal".
Obama caved... again.

As I've posted, I'm torn on this specific issue ~ lots of people, on both sides of the aisle, don't like it ~ the Ds because it includes tax cuts for the wealthy and the Rs because it includes extending unemployment benefits ~ it is, by all accounts, not a done deal ... yet ~

Sooz
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 Offline oskar576
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/07/10 12:26 pm • # 32 
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I'd not be surprised if the Dems quietly suggested to Obama that he not run in 2012.
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 Offline sooz06
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/07/10 12:41 pm • # 33 
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Maybe so ~ but don't discount how much has been accomplished in this less-than-2-years ~ and against humongous obstruction on everything ~

Sooz
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 Offline oskar576
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/07/10 12:50 pm • # 34 
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You might want to remember that it was while having a majority in both the House and Senate. It will be viewed as a failure in leadership, IMO.
There are very few who have what it takes to effectively head national governments. Very few.
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Cannalee2
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/07/10 10:13 pm • # 35 
Frankly, I don't see the problem as much a problem with Presidential leadership as I do with Democratic solidarity and Democratic Party leadership...jmo...
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 Offline sooz06
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/08/10 4:49 am • # 36 
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I want to be crystal clear and on record as NOT liking this tax deal ~ but since my own great concern was the extension of unemployment benefits [especially when coupled with my belief that today's Rs would indeed let the benefits expire for millions without blinking their eyes], I am grateful Obama was willing to go to the mat for those benefits ~ if only Ds were rebelling, I too might see it as an Obama leadership failure ~ but Rs are rebelling just as loudly ~ so I think Cannalee is right that this is more on congressional leadership[both D and R] than on Obama individually ~ which leads me to thinking that technically, this was both a pragmatic and a bipartisan agreement ~ both sides got some and lost some ~ and Obama was able to slip a few 'stimulative' items into the agreement ~ so, even tho I am 100% anti the 2-year tax cut extension for the wealthiest, the agreement is not as bad as I feared it could be ~ and let's not forget that this agreement has NOT yet been voted on in either house ~

Sooz
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 Offline jimwilliam
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/08/10 5:49 am • # 37 
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So what it all boils down to is, in their first exercise of power, the Republicans have added $700 billion to the debt. 
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 Offline jabra2
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/08/10 5:56 am • # 38 
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jimwilliam wrote:
So what it all boils down to is, in their first exercise of power, the Republicans have added $700 billion to the debt. 
Of course not! The democrats are in the majority in both houses and we have a democratic president.
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 Offline oskar576
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/08/10 6:11 am • # 39 
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jabra2 wrote:
jimwilliam wrote:
So what it all boils down to is, in their first exercise of power, the Republicans have added $700 billion to the debt. 
Of course not! The democrats are in the majority in both houses and we have a democratic president.

That's a pretty accurate assessment. IMO, Obama and the Dems should have never given in on this.
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 Offline jabra2
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/08/10 6:13 am • # 40 
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In any case, that's how it will be written in our history books years from now.
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 Offline jimwilliam
 Post subject: "Tax Deal Takes Shape"
PostPosted: 12/08/10 7:48 pm • # 41 
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In any case, that's how it will be written in our history books years from now.

Like in 2012?
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