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PostPosted: 12/21/10 6:45 am • # 1 
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I read something earlier [and will find it again] that said Lamar Alexander also publicly declared his support ~ again, I'm postponing celebrating until the final vote count ~ but this is very encouraging ~ Sooz

NEW START RATIFICATION COMES INTO FOCUS.... It was a busy day for the pending nuclear arms treaty, New START, in the Senate yesterday. President Obama, Vice President Biden, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton furiously worked the phones, urging Republican senators to do the right thing; the Senate met in closed session so members could hear classified information related to the treaty; and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, wrote a letter to each senator, imploring them to ratify the measure, calling it "vital" to U.S. national security.

And by late yesterday, the finish line was finally in sight.

Quote:

The Senate moved closer on Monday to approving a new arms control treaty with Russia over the opposition of Republican leaders as lawmakers worked on a side deal to assure skeptics that the arms pact would not inhibit American plans to build missile defense systems.

A Republican senator announced that he would vote for the treaty and two others said they were leaning toward it after a closed-door session on classified aspects of the pact. At the same time, Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, produced separate legislation that could reassure fellow Republicans worried about the treaty's impact on missile defense.

By the end of another tumultuous day, treaty backers said they could count more than the two-thirds majority required for approval in votes that could begin as early as Tuesday.

The goal, of course, remains 67 votes. The 58 members of the Senate Democratic caucus are already on board, meaning the treaty will need a minimum of nine Republican votes. As of this morning, there appear to five firm "aye" votes from the GOP caucus: Lugar, Snowe, Collins, Brown, and Voinovich. As the day progressed yesterday, Republicans Gregg, Bennett, Isakson, and Corker also said they're likely to support the treaty, while Murkowski and Cochran also appear to be leaning in the right direction.

If they all follow through, that's 11 Republican votes, which would be more than enough to succeed, and likely cause a few more GOP members to come along, rather than go on the record defying the pleas of the Pentagon (again).

And what about this reported side deal to make the McCain contingent happy? Apparently, they want some kind of formal assurances that the U.S. would pursue missile defense in Europe, regardless of Russian objections, which would not require formal changes to New START itself. The proposal is being pushed by McCain, Graham, Kyl, and Kirk, though it's unclear if any of the four would end up supporting ratification, even if their plan were adopted, and the White House has not yet commented on their offer.

Regardless, at this point, the votes appear to be in place whether this additional amendment is approved or not.

—Steve Benen 8:00 AM December 21, 2010

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archiv ... 027184.php


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 6:48 am • # 2 
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i think this thing is going to go.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 10:10 am • # 3 
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Here are the Lamar Alexander comments ~ Sooz

By [url=/author/Max Bergmann]Max Bergmann[/url] at 11:00 am
Lamar Alexander Will Vote For START, Republican Opposition ‘Collapsing'

Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN), the third highest ranking Republican, stated on the floor of the Senate this morning that he would vote to ratify the New START treaty. In supporting START, Alexander did not just issue a one-line statement. Instead, he fully justified his vote and in doing so obliterated many of the GOP talking points used against the treaty.

Quote:

I will vote to ratify the New START treaty…because it leaves our country with enough nuclear warheads to blow any attacker to kingdom come. … I will vote for the treaty because it allows for inspection of Russian warheads and because our military leaders say there is nothing to interfere with the development of a missile defense system. I will vote for the treaty because the last six Republican Secretaries of State support its ratification. In short, I am convinced that Americans are safer and more secure with the New START treaty than without it.

Watch it:

Alexander's decision to support New START should ensure that there are at least nine Republican votes for the treaty, therefore guaranteeing ratification. The vote may come later this afternoon.

His endorsement is quite a blow to Senate GOP leaders Sens. Mitch McConnell and Jon Kyl, who both came out strongly in opposition to the treaty on Sunday. The statements of McConnell and Kyl led to a wave of pessimism about START's prospects, as no arms control treaty has passed without the support of the minority leader. Yet just 24 hours later, Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA) said he would support the treaty and Sens. Judd Gregg (R-NH), Thad Cochran (R-MS), and Bob Corker (R-TN), who voted for the treaty in committee, indicated they were likely to vote for START.

Rich Lowry of the National Review writes, “Republican opposition to New START is collapsing. One Senate source just told me the vote for ratification could go as high as 75… This is a dismaying rout.â€



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PostPosted: 12/21/10 10:17 am • # 4 
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Great ~ another step closer ~ Sooz

Nuclear arms treaty clears key Senate hurdle

By the CNN Wire Staff
December 21, 2010 4:04 p.m. EST

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
    [*]The Senate voted to end debate on the START treaty Tuesday [*]The vote likely sets up the accord for final passage -- a win for President Obama [*]A number of Republicans broke with conservative leaders and backed the treaty [*]A White House spokesman predicts Senate approval of New START this week[/list]

Washington (CNN) -- The new nuclear arms control pact with Russia cleared a key procedural hurdle Tuesday as the Senate voted to cut off debate on the measure.

The 67-28 vote indicated a near-certain win for President Barack Obama on one of his top foreign policy priorities as Democrats continued to push through a series of measures before the end of the lame-duck session of Congress.

Eleven Republicans joined a unified Democratic caucus in support of the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, known as New START. Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman John Kerry, D-Massachusetts, said the measure will proceed to a final Senate vote no later than early Wednesday afternoon.

The treaty, if ratified, would resume inspections of each country's nuclear arsenal while limiting both the United States and Russia to 1,550 warheads and 700 launchers.

The treaty "leaves our country with enough nuclear warheads to blow any attacker to Kingdom Come," Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tennessee, declared on the Senate floor Tuesday. "I'm convinced that Americans are safer and more secure with the New START treaty than without it."

Alexander and several other Republicans broke with hard-line conservatives in arguing the accord does nothing to interfere with missile defense. They also said, contrary to the fears of many conservatives, that they had been assured of the administration's commitment to modernizing America's aging nuclear arsenal.

Alexander was joined in his support for the treaty by fellow GOP senators Richard Lugar of Indiana, Scott Brown of Massachusetts, Thad Cochran of Mississippi, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine, George Voinovich of Ohio, Bob Corker of Tennessee, Robert Bennett of Utah, and Johnny Isakson of Georgia.

If every senator votes the same way on final passage, the measure will receive enough support for congressional approval.

Under Senate rules, the treaty required a two-thirds majority of voting senators to pass, according to the office of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada.

Normally, that means the threshold for approval is 67 votes. At least one Democrat, Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon, was initially believed to be unlikely to be present for the final vote due to surgery for prostate cancer -- dropping the total number of senators voting to 99 and, therefore, the threshold for approval to 66.

Kerry indicated Tuesday, however, that Wyden will be present for the final vote.

A burst of GOP support came one day after Senate Democrats, joined by some Republicans, defeated several proposed Republican amendments to the treaty.

The defeated amendments included adding a reference to tactical nuclear weapons and a bid to remove from the preamble language recognizing a relationship between offensive and defensive weapons.

After a closed Senate session discussing New START on Monday, Democratic Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts, a leading proponent of the treaty, read reporters a letter to the Senate from Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen that expressed the full support of the military for quick ratification.

"This treaty has the full support of your uniformed military, and we all support its ratification," Kerry read from Mullen's letter.

Several conservative Republicans have insisted the treaty is insufficient. They were trying to delay final consideration of the treaty until January, when they will have a stronger minority in the Senate to give them more leverage.

Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Alabama, earlier in the week called the pact "deeply flawed" and "a dangerous step towards undermining our national security."

"I will not support subordinating U.S. national security to an untrustworthy partner and neither should the United States Senate," he said.

Obama and Democratic leaders have been pushing to get the agreement passed before their majority in the Senate diminishes in January. With legislators eager to get home for Christmas, the session is expected to end when the holiday recess begins later this week.

"I hope that my colleagues' vote is based not just on what they think about the treaty, but what they think about the process under which it's been done," said Arizona GOP Sen. Jon Kyl, echoing conservative complaints that Democratic leaders have rushed the debate over the treaty.

In a sign of the high stakes involved, Obama and other top administration officials, including Vice President Joe Biden and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, all have been talking to senators in recent days to seek support for the treaty.

Gibbs said Monday that Obama was available to answer questions about the pact in the runup to Tuesday's vote.

The conservative campaign against the treaty strengthened over the weekend when Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said on CNN's "State of the Union" program that he opposes the START accord. Kyl also said Sunday he would oppose the treaty.

An overwhelming majority of Americans, however, support ratification of the treaty, according to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll released Tuesday. Seventy-three percent of people questioned in the national poll said the Senate should approve the accord, while 24% said senators should reject it.

Obama signed the measure with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in April.

CNN's Alan Silverleib, Tom Cohen, Dana Bash, Ted Barrett, and Lesa Jansen contributed to this report

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/12/21/ ... =allsearch



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PostPosted: 12/21/10 1:02 pm • # 5 
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Is this a stand alone bill?


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 1:23 pm • # 6 
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It's ratification of a treaty [not a bill], oskar ~ and it's always been stand-alone as far as I know ~ everything I've read has said this is a stronger treaty than the one that expired ~ and all of the R objections have been proved to be bogus ~ so the R obstinacy is nothing more than partisan obstruction ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 1:31 pm • # 7 
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oskar- the history on this treaty is interesting. it has always passed with something approaching ZERO opposition. why? because it is probably the most important piece of security legislation that we have. if anyone in congress cares about security, this is their chance to prove it. there is one thing you can say about congresspeople, they really do care about appearances in such matters.

this thing is probably going to pass. it definitely should.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 2:04 pm • # 8 
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Well, if it stands alone (treaty ot bill) it's very clear that there are no possibilities of fudging the record. One either vote for or against - period.
That's why I'm so against all your omnibus bills as a matter of course.
Generally, we (Canada, that is) have one omnibus bill per session of Parliament, usually towards the end, to pass any bits and pieces that haven't been taken care of. This also includes private members' bills.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 2:50 pm • # 9 
Although that's it's intention, omnibus bills have a recent history of being very contentious here in Canada. I remember distinctly Mike Harris' then-new government in 1995 introducing an omnibus bill that in the stroke of a pen, started the dismantling of education, health, social services, hydro - everything in Ontario. The disruption to the social fabric was almost immediate and literally cost lives. We are by no means perfect in our governance here in Canada and I am of the mind to believe we need to clean up our own act here and leave everyone else on the planet to do likewise for themselves and their own countries.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:01 pm • # 10 
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I was speaking federally, Sid.

Harris was a bonehead. Eves was even worse... and now you have McGuinty. Geez, did Ontarians offend god or something?


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:12 pm • # 11 
McGuinty, for all his faults - is OK in my book. In my past I have met Andrea Horwath and as person I like her, but I don't think she has what it takes to run the province. As for Tim Hudak.... no thanks.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:14 pm • # 12 
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I met Bill Davis many moons ago. He was an arrogant prick.
I'll tell you about it sometime.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:18 pm • # 13 
Given some of those higher-ups I've met... I got the same impression.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:21 pm • # 14 
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Some of them have a lot of class in spite of their foibles, Sid.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:24 pm • # 15 
That's true... but I haven't met them.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:31 pm • # 16 
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Remember Pierre Cadieux, Labour Minister in the Mulroney cabinet? He was MP for Hudson in Quebec.
One evening I was having dinner/drinks with some friends and he walks in with his clicque of bouncers and starts doing the rounds glad-handing the people.
He got to our table to do his politicking. He says, "Hi, I'm Pierre Cadieux, Minister of Labour".
I looked up and said, "Hi, I'm .... and if I were you I wouldn't brag about. Now piss off, you're bothering us".
He and his crowd left the place in a hurry.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:38 pm • # 17 
(oooooo)

I did a video for the City of Hamilton and the mayor tried to hijack it. Then his #1 mob henchman tried to better him. After I submitted the final production, they were both counting how many times each one appeared in the video. I had to add some 3 minutes to make sure the mayor was in it more than his "sidekick".

Here's how his "sidekick" ended up - LINK 


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:41 pm • # 18 
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Sidartha wrote:
(oooooo)

I did a video for the City of Hamilton and the mayor tried to hijack it. Then his #1 mob henchman tried to better him. After I submitted the final production, they were both counting how many times each one appeared in the video. I had to add some 3 minutes to make sure the mayor was in it more than his "sidekick".

Here's how his "sidekick" ended up - LINK 
Lead poisoning? [img]/domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif[/img]


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:43 pm • # 19 
No... run off the road at 100+ miles an hour at 2 am on a lonely road. His wreck wasn't discovered until the next morning.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:46 pm • # 20 
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Sidartha wrote:
No... run off the road at 100+ miles an hour at 2 am on a lonely road. His wreck wasn't discovered until the next morning.

Oh, an "accident".


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:52 pm • # 21 
There are no accidents - only secrets.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:55 pm • # 22 
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Sidartha wrote:
There are no accidents - only secrets.

i like that.  Ornette Coleman said something similar about musical mistakes.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:56 pm • # 23 
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I Googled the guy. Nada other than the obit. Kinda strange, that.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 3:58 pm • # 24 
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oskar576 wrote:
I Googled the guy. Nada other than the obit. Kinda strange, that.

i am guessing that was no accident.  i am also guessing that sid tried something similar.


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PostPosted: 12/21/10 4:00 pm • # 25 
Huh?


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