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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/18/11 1:23 pm • # 201 
bunkerhill14 wrote:
jeannept
Obama was elected. So have people trned dumb since then or were they dumb then?         



We have always had dumb people in America- I'm grouping dumb and racist together so more people are now dumb than before Nov. 2008.  I don't know how old anybody on this board is

but I have been voting since Kennedy and I have  never seen more un-american behavior in my lifetime than the Republicans have shown in the last 33 months- although the early 60's comes close..  Even with all the damage to this country that dumbya did, he wanted to have a dictatorship - guess he felt he was held back from totally ruining us- so I can imagine President Obama is stressed and disappointed more now than at any point in his life. I don't have a number for these people but a large number of people never expected Obama to win and since he has their racism has come flooding out - I don't expect them to ever accept him or to ever stop wishing him dead so his lack of success has probably prevented the next Civil War- or at least delayed it. 

Bunker the people who are racist now always were racist.  They did not elect Obama.  Other people did.  The racists were dumb then and are now.  It simply shows more now.  Accusations of racism that are not valid also show more now.  Are you saying people voted for Obama expecting him not to win?  That makes no sense to me

I don't understand the Civil War thing.  What will the two sides be?    


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/18/11 1:34 pm • # 202 
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Politics aqs practiced now is petty and venal. Speaking of racism, does anyone remember the address Obama gave before his election dealing with the issue of race in America. It was brilliant. It was the best I have ever heard. In years to come it will be the definitive statement on the topic in history classes discussing race in America in the late 20'th century. But what do people think of now when that address is mentioned? "He threw his grandmother under the bus." Makes me sick.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/18/11 1:43 pm • # 203 
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grampatom wrote:
Politics aqs practiced now is petty and venal. Speaking of racism, does anyone remember the address Obama gave before his election dealing with the issue of race in America. It was brilliant. It was the best I have ever heard. In years to come it will be the definitive statement on the topic in history classes discussing race in America in the late 20'th century. But what do people think of now when that address is mentioned? "He threw his grandmother under the bus." Makes me sick.

my friend in San Diego, who is pretty passive about politics, made me watch that speech.  he said "listen to this- have you ever heard anything this amazing from a presidential candidate?"  my answer was, at the time, no.  it still is.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/18/11 1:47 pm • # 204 
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Yeah, if I remember right Obama said he would veto any bill (during the debt ceiling debate) that was not complete and would mean months more of this bs debate.  He then supported a bill that was incomplete and means months more of ths bs debate.  Talk is not strength when it is not meant.  It is just words.  He hs talked strong many times.  That isn't worth shit.  It doesn't help anyone.  Maybe it helps the repubs because Obama looks weak when he says those things and then caves in.

Politics is the art of the possible. You seem to be saying that, had Obama been more stubborn, the I-don't give-a-shit-about-the-consequences freshman repubs would have acquiesed.  Obama gave a shit about the consequences, and signed a bill that enabled him to avert disastger, and left the opportunity to fight another day on the issues he compromised on. He had responsibility for averting the disaster, and the cross-eyed TP (which can also stand for toilet paper) people did not. He honored it.

You want an uncompromising Democrat Tea Party-style President who doesn't give a shit about consequences. I don't. I want someone smarter than that.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/18/11 2:07 pm • # 205 
grampa:  "You want an uncompromising Democrat Tea Party-style President who doesn't give a shit about consequences". 

Grampa, you know damn well that's not what I said or what I want.

Ha,  I want one who doesn't lie.  I accept they have to compromise on most things.  So why say you'll veto a bill that doesn't have whatever when you are willing to compromise on whatever?  It makes you look like a liar and weak.  How many times do I have to say I know he has to compromise on some things?  I can accept that.  It's a fact.  You like his strong statements about I will veto this even though he will support what he threatens to veto.  I would rather he make strong statements he will stick to or no strong statements at all.  I want someone smarter than that.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/18/11 2:37 pm • # 206 
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grampatom wrote:
Yeah, if I remember right Obama said he would veto any bill (during the debt ceiling debate) that was not complete and would mean months more of this bs debate.  He then supported a bill that was incomplete and means months more of ths bs debate.  Talk is not strength when it is not meant.  It is just words.  He hs talked strong many times.  That isn't worth shit.  It doesn't help anyone.  Maybe it helps the repubs because Obama looks weak when he says those things and then caves in.

Politics is the art of the possible. You seem to be saying that, had Obama been more stubborn, the I-don't give-a-shit-about-the-consequences freshman repubs would have acquiesed.  Obama gave a shit about the consequences, and signed a bill that enabled him to avert disastger, and left the opportunity to fight another day on the issues he compromised on. He had responsibility for averting the disaster, and the cross-eyed TP (which can also stand for toilet paper) people did not. He honored it.

You want an uncompromising Democrat Tea Party-style President who doesn't give a shit about consequences. I don't. I want someone smarter than that.
Well said, grampatom. I agree completely.

And yes - that was a great speech. How many politicians would deal with an issue like race by giving a speech before an election?


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/18/11 3:47 pm • # 207 
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his speech on religion was bloody well amazing, too.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 1:50 am • # 208 
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I know I'm repeating myself, but I just do not get why anyone lies about things that are so easily disproven ~ emphasis/bolding below [in the text] is mine ~ Sooz

Perry Claims Federal Stimulus ‘Didn't Create Any Jobs,' Ignoring The 50,000 It Created In Texas

ThinkProgress filed this report from Pembroke, New Hampshire

New GOP presidential contender Gov. Rick Perry (TX) continues to get a free pass from the press for his stimulus hypocrisy on the campaign trail. Last week the governor claimed that the Recovery Act signed by President Obama had “failedâ€



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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 1:54 am • # 209 
jeannept

Bunker the people who are racist now always were racist.


Right but they had sense enough to keep it hidden for the most part- unlike today- where there's no mistaking it for anything else.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 1:57 am • # 210 
jeannept
 Are you saying people voted for Obama expecting him not to win? 


No- I'm saying a number of people remained apolitical because in their wildest dreams they never saw a black man in the White House-now they're tea bagging republicans.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 2:24 am • # 211 
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So why doesn't anybody call Perry (or anybody else who lies) a liar to his face?


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 3:11 am • # 212 
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oskar576 wrote:
So why doesn't anybody call Perry (or anybody else who lies) a liar to his face?

these phony question and answer sessions are carefully screened to avoid such mishaps.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 3:57 am • # 213 
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Reckon no Congress Critters can afford to call somebody a liar publicly.
And the media are too chicken/bought-and-paid-for or otherwise ethically challenged to do it.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 4:07 am • # 214 
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oskar576 wrote:
Reckon no Congress Critters can afford to call somebody a liar publicly.
And the media are too chicken/bought-and-paid-for or otherwise ethically challenged to do it.

i think that is the MOST disturbing development in the last 40 years in the US- the failure of the media to be the guardian of the truth.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 4:18 am • # 215 
bunkerhill14 wrote:
jeannept
 Are you saying people voted for Obama expecting him not to win? 


No- I'm saying a number of people remained apolitical because in their wildest dreams they never saw a black man in the White House-now they're tea bagging republicans.

I agree with that and with the fact that racism is more evident now.  I don't think that means more people are dumb now.  The racists always were dumb.  Do you maybe mean more dumb people are voting now?


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 4:32 am • # 216 
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macroscopic wrote:
oskar576 wrote:
Reckon no Congress Critters can afford to call somebody a liar publicly.
And the media are too chicken/bought-and-paid-for or otherwise ethically challenged to do it.

i think that is the MOST disturbing development in the last 40 years in the US- the failure of the media to be the guardian of the truth.


There is great competition for '... the MOST disturbing development' title ~ but 'the failure of the media to be the guardian of the truth' is clearly in the running ~

Sooz


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 6:12 am • # 217 
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Grampa, you know damn well that's not what I said or what I want.

I know that's not what you want. It seemed to be the implication of what you said.
The whole argument revolves around him changing his mind about what was negotiable.
Also is about conflicting priorities - avoiding fiscal meltdown vs having to backtrack on an earlier assertion.

"I said I would stay in my home, and by God I am not leaving this house. I don't care how it takes the fire department to get here and to put the fire out."
  


Last edited by grampatom on 08/19/11 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 6:14 am • # 218 
One must not forget that Perry is drinking the same Texas water that Bush drank.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 6:17 am • # 219 
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What's with that voice? He might ought to look into going up a size in underwear.
(Yes, I know, it's petty, doesn't disqualitfy him for office)


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 6:20 am • # 220 
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grampatom wrote:
What's with that voice? He might ought to look into going up a size in underwear.
(Yes, I know, it's petty, doesn't disqualitfy him for office)
Not sure 'bout that. Those tight undies are squeezing his brain just a tad too much.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 6:24 am • # 221 
grampatom wrote:
Grampa, you know damn well that's not what I said or what I want.

I know that's not what you want. It seemed to be the implication of what you said.
The whole argument revolves around him changing his mind about what was negotiable.
Also is about conflicting priorities - avoiding fiscal meltdown vs having to backtrack on an earlier assertion.

"I said I would stay in my home, and by God I am not leaving this house. I don't care how it takes the fire department to get here and to put the fire out."
  
There's a lot more to the argument than that, grampa.  And the debt ceiling debate was not the only time he did it.  The repubs want no new taxes and to keep the tax cuts for the rich.  They won't compromise.  Obama says he wants to keep the things that help the people who need help the most and wants to balance it, taxes plus cuts i spending.  When he caves in the ones who need help suffer and the rich stay protected.  I think it is conflicting priorities.  Help the ones in need or protect the rich.

You seem determined to believe that I am saying no compromise ever.  That is not what I'm saying, but it's fine if you want to think that.  No problem.
  


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/19/11 9:16 am • # 222 
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I hoped you weren't saying no compromise ever, and didn't really believe you were. I've been talking mainly about the debt limit debate, where I think he did as well as anyone could have.

I guess I've been skirting your main point, which I take to be: Why should an independent voter vote for Obama in 2012. I will vote for him again because the alternative is a Republican President who owes his soul to an unholy alliance of the most socially reactionary elements of our society, and I don't want to have to live under a government run by them. I would vote for a different Democrat that I was sure could win.  But nobody in the Democratic party willbe challenging him. And I believe his heart and mind incline toward my values, and that he will promote those in the office.

I'm not a registered democrat or a registered anything else. I guess I am an Independent, and that's why I'll vote for Obama again.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/20/11 2:17 am • # 223 
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Of these 7 [and I know there are more to add to the list], I tend to agree with #1, but for different reasons and by different methods ~ and I strongly disagree with the other 6 ~ Sooz

Seven ways Rick Perry wants to change the Constitution
By Chris Moody | The Ticket – Fri, Aug 19, 2011

Rick Perry has many ideas about how to change the American government's founding document. From ending lifetime tenure for federal judges to completely scrapping two whole amendments, the Constitution would see a major overhaul if the Texas governor and Republican presidential candidate had his druthers.

Perry laid out these proposed innovations to the founding document in his book, Fed Up! Our Fight to Save America from Washington. He has occasionally mentioned them on the campaign trail. Several of his ideas fall within the realm of mainstream conservative thinking today, but, as you will see, there are also a few surprises.

1. Abolish lifetime tenure for federal judges by amending Article III, Section I of the Constitution.

The nation's framers established a federal court system whereby judges with "good behavior" would be secure in their job for life. Perry believes that provision is ready for an overhaul.

"The Judges," reads Article III, "both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office."

Perry makes it no secret that he believes the judges on the bench over the past century have acted beyond their constitutional bounds. The problem, Perry reasons, is that members of the judiciary are "unaccountable" to the people, and their lifetime tenure gives them free license to act however they want. In his book, the governor speaks highly of plans to limit their tenure and offers proposals about how to accomplish it.

"'[W]e should take steps to restrict the unlimited power of the courts to rule over us with no accountability," he writes in Fed Up! "There are a number of ideas about how to do this . . . . One such reform would be to institute term limits on what are now lifetime appointments for federal judges, particularly those on the Supreme Court or the circuit courts, which have so much power. One proposal, for example, would have judges roll off every two years based on seniority."

2. Congress should have the power to override Supreme Court decisions with a two-thirds vote.

Ending lifetime tenure for federal justices isn't the only way Perry has proposed suppressing the power of the courts. His book excoriates at length what he sees as overreach from the judicial branch. (The title of Chapter Six is "Nine Unelected Judges Tell Us How to Live.")

Giving Congress the ability to veto their decisions would be another way to take the Court down a notch, Perry says.

"[A]llow Congress to override the Supreme Court with a two-thirds vote in both the House and Senate, which risks increased politicization of judicial decisions, but also has the benefit of letting the people stop the Court from unilaterally deciding policy," he writes.

3. Scrap the federal income tax by repealing the Sixteenth Amendment.

The Sixteenth Amendment gives Congress the "power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." It should be abolished immediately, Perry says.

Calling the Sixteenth Amendment "the great milestone on the road to serfdom," Perry's writes that it provides a virtually blank check to the federal government to use for projects with little or no consultation from the states.

4. End the direct election of senators by repealing the Seventeenth Amendment.

Overturning this amendment would restore the original language of the Constitution, which gave state legislators the power to appoint the members of the Senate.

Ratified during the Progressive Era in 1913 , the same year as the Sixteenth Amendment, the Seventeenth Amendment gives citizens the ability to elect senators on their own. Perry writes that supporters of the amendment at the time were "mistakenly" propelled by "a fit of populist rage."

"The American people mistakenly empowered the federal government during a fit of populist rage in the early twentieth century by giving it an unlimited source of income (the Sixteenth Amendment) and by changing the way senators are elected (the Seventeenth Amendment)," he writes.

5. Require the federal government to balance its budget every year.

Of all his proposed ideas, Perry calls this one "the most important," and of all the plans, a balanced budget amendment likely has the best chance of passage.

"The most important thing we could do is amend the Constitution--now--to restrict federal spending," Perry writes in his book. "There are generally thought to be two options: the traditional 'balanced budget amendment' or a straightforward 'spending limit amendment,' either of which would be a significant improvement. I prefer the latter . . . . Let's use the people's document--the Constitution--to put an actual spending limit in place to control the beast in Washington."

A campaign to pass a balanced budget amendment through Congress fell short by just one vote in the Senate in the 1990s.

Last year, House Republicans proposed a spending-limit amendment that would limit federal spending to 20 percent of the economy. According to the amendment's language, the restriction could be overridden by a two-thirds vote in both Houses of Congress or by a declaration of war.

6. The federal Constitution should define marriage as between one man and one woman in all 50 states.

Despite saying last month that he was "fine with" states like New York allowing gay marriage, Perry has now said he supports a constitutional amendment that would permanently ban gay marriage throughout the country and overturn any state laws that define marriage beyond a relationship between one man and one woman.

"I do respect a state's right to have a different opinion and take a different tack if you will, California did that," Perry told the Christian Broadcasting Network in August. "I respect that right, but our founding fathers also said, 'Listen, if you all in the future think things are so important that you need to change the Constitution here's the way you do it'.

In an interview with The Ticket earlier this month, Perry spokeswoman Katherine Cesinger said that even though it would overturn laws in several states, the amendment still fits into Perry's broader philosophy because amendments require the ratification of three-fourths of the states to be added to the Constitution.

7. Abortion should be made illegal throughout the country.

Like the gay marriage issue, Perry at one time believed that abortion policy should be left to the states, as was the case before the 1973 Supreme Court case Roe v. Wade. But in the same Christian Broadcasting Network interview, Perry said that he would support a federal amendment outlawing abortion because it was "so important...to the soul of this country and to the traditional values [of] our founding fathers."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/seven-ways-rick-perry-wants-change-constitution-131634517.html



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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/20/11 4:50 am • # 224 
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I sooooo miss Ann Richards and Molly Ivins ~ just imagining their reactions to Perry as national candidate makes me grin ~ Sooz

Rick Perry Signed Unconstitutional Law Nullifying Federal Light Bulb Law
Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) is one of the most radical constitutional thinkers in the country. He believes that Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional. He thinks federal child labor laws, overtime laws and the minimum wage all violate the Constitution. And he doesn't think that Americans should be able to elect their own senators — among other things.

So it probably shouldn't come as any surprise that Perry supports one of the most destructive misinterpretations of the Constitution in American history — nullification.

In 2007, President George W. Bush signed a law that would gradually phase out older light bulbs that are both more inefficient and more expensive in the long run that bulbs based on modern technology. Once President Obama moved into the White House, however, conservatives suddenly decided that it was their fundamental right as an American to waste their money on expensive and outdated bulbs. Accordingly, Texas lawmakers passed a bill claiming that many Texas light bulb manufacturers can simply ignore this law, and Perry signed that bill into law last June.

The idea that states can invalidate federal laws that they don't like — an idea known as nullification — is wildly unconstitutional. The U.S. Constitution expressly states that Acts of Congress “shall be the supreme law of the land…anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding,â€



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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/20/11 4:52 am • # 225 
me too, sooz


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