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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/14/11 2:33 pm • # 26 
Shows how sad a situation we're in.  I think Obama was gonna pick his nose for 4 years but the repubs held his nose hostage and he caved in.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 2:12 am • # 27 
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When the smoke-and-mirrors clear, reality bites ~ Sooz

August 15, 2011 8:35 AM
Miracles, myths, and mirages
By Steve Benen

For the foreseeable future, we're likely to hear quite a bit about the “Texas Miracleâ€



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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 2:49 am • # 28 
Still too many words... hard to counter "Blame Obama".


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 4:05 am • # 29 
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jeannept wrote:
I think there are a lot more things involved.  Certainly there are those who vote party regardless.  There are those who simply will not vote for a black person or a Mormon etc.  There are those who will always vote for the incumbent or againt the incumbent.  You can't do anything about those people.  Then there are those who are pissed off at both parties.  We know the repubs have as their goal getting rid of Obama for whatever reason, imo, mostly because he is a lefty.  There are those who supported Obama who feel he has not been a good President.  There are those on the left who didn't support Obama because they felt he wouldn't be a good President and have been proven right.  That one includes me.  I feel he has been a wimp for the most part.  He compromises on things that shouldn't be compromised on.  He makes a strong statement and then gives in.  The fact is, the chances are the makeup of the Congress will stay basically the same.  If Obama can't do anything but blame them now, then to vote for him is to vote for 4 more years of the same bullshit.  People want real change, not just words.  There is no candidate that will make real change.  I am not one who will vote for a little better than the other.  If you have proven yourself unworthy, you don't get my vote.  That doesn't mean the repub gets it.  That leaves people like me to have to decide how best to handle it.  Others who have the same problem look at the other candidates and look for a difference.  The tea party showed how people ran to people they thought were different.  Perry appears to be different.  Could he win because of that, and because, to many, Texas looks good on paper......yep.  He never has and never will get my vote, but he could pull this off.  The dems have to try to appeal to people who are pissed at both parties.  They have to tell us why we should elect him again.  He has to do more than the rah rah bs he did about the US and S & P.  We know what he was left with from Bushie.  However, at what point does he have to take the credit or blame?  He is blaming everyone else and everything.  All that says to me is he can't handle it.  The dems are not saying what will happen if we reelect him, what will be different.  I think he could very well lose the election if they don't start campaigning better.  We could end up with someone like Perry as President.
If you want real change, vote for a Tea Party candidate.  I don't get all these complaints about Obama.  Considering the state of the economy throughout his Presidency and the virulent opposition he's faced from the right, he's accomplished more than any President in my memory.  There are those who complain he isn't "principled" or doesn't "stick to his guns".  In effect, what such people are arguing for is a left wing version of the Tea Party and even greater polarization of the American political process.  If he had done what his left sided detrators had wanted there probably would have been no bail outs, no Affordable Care program, no stimulus program and probably no start on getting spending under control.  He went in saying he was going to work with both sides and he has done that.  Given the economy and political realities in the U.S. right now, I don't think you could have had a better President.

  


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 4:12 am • # 30 
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The Dems had a majority in both the Senate and the House for two years and didn't fare any better then than they are now. There's a difference between "working with" and "submitting to". 


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 4:39 am • # 31 
jimwilliam wrote:
jeannept wrote:
I think there are a lot more things involved.  Certainly there are those who vote party regardless.  There are those who simply will not vote for a black person or a Mormon etc.  There are those who will always vote for the incumbent or againt the incumbent.  You can't do anything about those people.  Then there are those who are pissed off at both parties.  We know the repubs have as their goal getting rid of Obama for whatever reason, imo, mostly because he is a lefty.  There are those who supported Obama who feel he has not been a good President.  There are those on the left who didn't support Obama because they felt he wouldn't be a good President and have been proven right.  That one includes me.  I feel he has been a wimp for the most part.  He compromises on things that shouldn't be compromised on.  He makes a strong statement and then gives in.  The fact is, the chances are the makeup of the Congress will stay basically the same.  If Obama can't do anything but blame them now, then to vote for him is to vote for 4 more years of the same bullshit.  People want real change, not just words.  There is no candidate that will make real change.  I am not one who will vote for a little better than the other.  If you have proven yourself unworthy, you don't get my vote.  That doesn't mean the repub gets it.  That leaves people like me to have to decide how best to handle it.  Others who have the same problem look at the other candidates and look for a difference.  The tea party showed how people ran to people they thought were different.  Perry appears to be different.  Could he win because of that, and because, to many, Texas looks good on paper......yep.  He never has and never will get my vote, but he could pull this off.  The dems have to try to appeal to people who are pissed at both parties.  They have to tell us why we should elect him again.  He has to do more than the rah rah bs he did about the US and S & P.  We know what he was left with from Bushie.  However, at what point does he have to take the credit or blame?  He is blaming everyone else and everything.  All that says to me is he can't handle it.  The dems are not saying what will happen if we reelect him, what will be different.  I think he could very well lose the election if they don't start campaigning better.  We could end up with someone like Perry as President.
If you want real change, vote for a Tea Party candidate.  I don't get all these complaints about Obama.  Considering the state of the economy throughout his Presidency and the virulent opposition he's faced from the right, he's accomplished more than any President in my memory.  There are those who complain he isn't "principled" or doesn't "stick to his guns".  In effect, what such people are arguing for is a left wing version of the Tea Party and even greater polarization of the American political process.  If he had done what his left sided detrators had wanted there probably would have been no bail outs, no Affordable Care program, no stimulus program and probably no start on getting spending under control.  He went in saying he was going to work with both sides and he has done that.  Given the economy and political realities in the U.S. right now, I don't think you could have had a better President.

  
Ha.  I assumed people would know I personally meant change for the better (so no vote for the tea party).  I am all for compromise and working together.  What I don't lke about Obama is he comes on strong and makes statements of principle that are non negotiable and then he caves in.  So, now his strong statements just aren't worth shit.  I feel he is a wimp.  I don't see him as a leader and don't see that he really understands how bad off so many people are.  Some people accept well at least it is something.  That's all we'll ever get.  You can't blame the repubs both when they control Congress and when the dems control Congress.  It is both parties.  And it is lack of leadership.  Why should the repubs give in on anything when they know the Pres will cave in?  This is politics.  I can not say Obama cares about the people any more than anyone else because his caving in, imo, is even worse than the repubs exercising their power.  For someone to state correctly what is best for the people and then throw that away is simply not something I can support.  Obama is not working with the repubs, he is insulting them and flexing his muscles, putting on a show, then giving in and accepting what they want. 

  


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 4:47 am • # 32 
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While I believe jeanne has made some solid points, especially in terms of how some are thinking, my own thought processes are closer to jim's take ~ and while Dems have had a majority [and still have a majority in the Senate], they have not had a super majority ~ and let's not forget the GOP/TP pledge to 'defeat/delay everything' ~ since the GOP/TP has seen fit to put self-serving holds and filibusters on even the most mundane votes, it takes a super majority to get anything to a vote ~ I also believe it would be an enormous mistake to not keep hammering on exactly what Obama inherited and the very near total GOP/TP obstructionism on everything ~

Having said that, I'm not happy with some of what Obama has, or has not, done ~ no prez is gonna please his[her] supporters all the time ~ while I'm delighted especially with the social progress to date, he could certainly be tougher in some of the negotiations ~ but [and it's a BIG but] being tough does not necessarily translate to marshaling enough votes to get bills enacted ~ while Obama may have not been totally successful in getting what he wants, IMO he has done a terrific job in limiting/lessening the GOP/TP getting what they want ~ and the thought of where we'd be today if McCain/Palin had won instead of Obama/Biden is the stuff of nightmares for me ~ 

Sooz


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 4:56 am • # 33 
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and let's not forget the GOP/TP pledge to 'defeat/delay everything' ~

Even worse, since the advertised the fact.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 5:09 am • # 34 
jabra2 wrote:
bunkerhill14 wrote:
So we're getting what seems like a majority here that agree that about half of Americans are dumb as a box of rocks.
Maybe not dumb but certainly totally ignorant, desinterested, incurious, easy to manipulate, trained by constant repetition of soundbites, irrational and confused.
jabra, I would add desperate


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 5:27 am • # 35 
sooz08 wrote:
While I believe jeanne has made some solid points, especially in terms of how some are thinking, my own thought processes are closer to jim's take ~ and while Dems have had a majority [and still have a majority in the Senate], they have not had a super majority ~ and let's not forget the GOP/TP pledge to 'defeat/delay everything' ~ since the GOP/TP has seen fit to put self-serving holds and filibusters on even the most mundane votes, it takes a super majority to get anything to a vote ~ I also believe it would be an enormous mistake to not keep hammering on exactly what Obama inherited and the very near total GOP/TP obstructionism on everything ~

Having said that, I'm not happy with some of what Obama has, or has not, done ~ no prez is gonna please his[her] supporters all the time ~ while I'm delighted especially with the social progress to date, he could certainly be tougher in some of the negotiations ~ but [and it's a BIG but] being tough does not necessarily translate to marshaling enough votes to get bills enacted ~ while Obama may have not been totally successful in getting what he wants, IMO he has done a terrific job in limiting/lessening the GOP/TP getting what they want ~ and the thought of where we'd be today if McCain/Palin had won instead of Obama/Biden is the stuff of nightmares for me ~ 

Sooz
sooz, do you think hammering away at those things will get votes?  I heard this morning that Obama's approval rating is 39%.  Has hammering away at those things helped him?  That's all I hear from too many is how he was left with this stuff and the repubs are being bad.  Ok, I understand that and agree.  And, Obama hasn't been able to handle it, so why reelect him?  I think that is the queston that needs to be answered for many of us.  Why vote for 4 more years of this bs?  Did hammering away work in the midterm elections?  Many people don't think Obama is a good President but can not vote for any of the Repub candidates running so far.  Many of them will not vote for Pres because they consider it a wasted vote regardless.  Will hammering away get them to vote?  If you can't get them to vote for Obama someone like Perry can easily win because those people vote.

People talk about Americans being dumb or half of the Americans being dumb.  Obama was elected.  So we've gotten dumber since then?  Or were we dumb then?  You're not gonna get votes for Obama by calling Americans dumb.

If people want Obama to be reelected they have to offer more than blame and excuses.  They have to tell why 4 more years of him is worth it.   People who are having such huge problems now can not survive 4 more years of the same.
  


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 5:34 am • # 36 
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Obama compared to the entire Repug field so far is a better choice and that's saying very little.
The Dems need to find a candidate worth voting for.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 6:58 am • # 37 
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oskar576 wrote:
Obama compared to the entire Repug field so far is a better choice and that's saying very little.
The Dems need to find a candidate worth voting for.

They had a candidate worth voting for.  What they also needed was a collective backbone to stand up to the republitards and call them out on their BS.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 7:06 am • # 38 
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laffinalltheway wrote:
oskar576 wrote:
Obama compared to the entire Repug field so far is a better choice and that's saying very little.
The Dems need to find a candidate worth voting for.

They had a candidate worth voting for.  What they also needed was a collective backbone to stand up to the republitards and call them out on their BS.

That was then, this is now.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 7:23 am • # 39 
laffinalltheway wrote:
oskar576 wrote:
Obama compared to the entire Repug field so far is a better choice and that's saying very little.
The Dems need to find a candidate worth voting for.

They had a candidate worth voting for.  What they also needed was a collective backbone to stand up to the republitards and call them out on their BS.

Is he still worth voting for?  If so, why?  Since he and the other dems can't do anything, they could at least fail because they stuck to their principles rather than fail even after selling their souls.  Vote for one side even though they are idiots or vote for the other side even though they are cowards.  I don't want either.  Show me some reason to say well things will be better if we vote in more dems and reelect Obama.
  


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 7:24 am • # 40 
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Fine. Elect Bachmann/Palin.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 7:41 am • # 41 
oskar576 wrote:
Fine. Elect Bachmann/Palin.
oskar, is that directed at me?   I hope not because I have clearly stated I can't vote for any of the repub candidates.

The country will not elect a woman President.  They may, however, elect someone like Perry if they can see no hope in 4 more years of Obama.

  


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 7:53 am • # 42 
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Not directed at anyone in particular.
If the choice is between lesser evils then that's what it is.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 8:03 am • # 43 
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I look at it from a different perspective, jeanne ~ I see those who choose to not vote because there's not an 'ideal' candidate to their liking as a big part of the problem ~ that's exactly what happened in November 2010 ~ liberals/Ds were pissed off at Obama for one reason or another and chose to not vote, which in turn allowed something like 80 GOP/TPers to waltz into the House ~ and we've all witnessed how that has worked out ~ Image ~ as I posted earlier, NO prez is ever going to please all of his[her] supporters all the time ~ but to pull back and/or refuse to vote because you [the generic 'you'] don't get exactly what you want when you want it is not the answer in my own mind ~ for me, we should not dismiss what Obama has managed to accomplish in 3 years, especially in light of all the obstruction and gaming ~ his accomplishments are truly extraordinary, and, for me, outweigh the negatives ~ he has accomplished more in 3 years than any other prez in decades ~ that does NOT imply that I'm thrilled with everything ~

I also deeply believe that the debt-ceiling debacle ironically works in his favor ~ people, both libs and cons, are truly appalled at the GOP/TP intransigence ~ according to polls and pundits [excluding the Fox contingent], TP 'popularity' and 'approval' has fallen dramatically in the last couple of weeks ~ I see now as the time to up the pressure and support for Obama, not retreat ~

Sooz


Last edited by sooz06 on 08/15/11 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 8:11 am • # 44 
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I see now as the time to up the pressure and support for Obama, not retreat ~

Unless somebody better comes along...


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 8:19 am • # 45 
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oskar, I believe Obama is a stand-up and stand-out prez ~ I don't see anyone better able to cut thru the crap than he ~ and I deeply believe we would see at least a majority of the same crap being hurled at any Dem ~ it's really all a consequence of how extremely far right the GOP has moved ~ and that is largely thanks to the mega 'private' bucks supporting them ~

Sooz


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 8:33 am • # 46 

What will he do?  That's what I am asking.  Assuming the makeup of Congress stays basically the same, what will he do differently or are we just supposed to accept we will get nothing.  Yes, everyone is saying the tea party support is declining, but so is Obama's approval rating.  An all time low.  So, people are pissed off at both parties.

I don't expect perfection.  I supported Bill Clinton and wanted Hillary as President.  I do expect someone who will stand for their principles.  I would have less of a problem with Obama if he would just not come up with all this strong shit when he knows he will not be able to achieve it.  Don't say what you won't accept and then turn around and accept it.  Don't say the US will always be a triple A country when our economy sucks and the politicians can't get their shit together to fix it.  I won't vote for someone like that.  It would be a wasted vote, just as not voting would be, and I would be giving in on my principles just like he does.  I am not retreating from supporting him, I didn't vote for hm the first time because I knew he couldn't do it.  As oskar said things didn't go so well before the waltz of the teapartiers. 

4 more years of the same?  That's what you are satisfied with?  People are suffering, giving up.  What will he do to help them?  What can he do to help them?  They are supposed to sit with no jobs and little food and lost homes and cars and say well at least Obama helped the auto workers, at least the subsidies helped some people, at least the bailed out companies can continue to screw people?  Extend the tax cuts for the rich and continue the subsidies.  We can take it all from the programs that help people in need, from social security and medicare.  Not we need to do both, stop the tax cuts, stop the subsidies and go through every department and cut the waste.  He says do both but gives in.  Why would these people vote for him?  The dems need to have a better candidate, he has shown he can't do it. 

What I am saying is I know what his supporters think, although his support is declinng.  They won't get him elected with just insulting the other party.  They need to tell us why he deserves 4 more years given congress will probably stay the same.



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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 8:40 am • # 47 
sooz08 wrote:
oskar, I believe Obama is a stand-up and stand-out prez ~ I don't see anyone better able to cut thru the crap than he ~ and I deeply believe we would see at least a majority of the same crap being hurled at any Dem ~ it's really all a consequence of how extremely far right the GOP has moved ~ and that is largely thanks to the mega 'private' bucks supporting them ~

Sooz
sooz, we disagree about Obama.  That's fine.  I don't see him cutting through the crap.  I see him talking big and doing little.  Yes, we would see the same thrown at any dem.  I have always said that when people try to attribute most of the problems to racism.  I would like to see a dem candidate who doesn't have a long record of caving in.  Obama has made himself even more impotent because the repubs know if they play games long enough he will give in.

  


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 8:54 am • # 48 
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Not voting is giving up.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 9:04 am • # 49 
jeannept
I think that is the queston that needs to be answered for many of us. Why vote for 4 more years of this bs?


Because if we don't we'll get four years of repugnants and tea baggers that will make dumbya's eight years of hell look like the good old days.


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 Post subject: Rick Perry's extremism
PostPosted: 08/15/11 9:12 am • # 50 
jeannept
They need to tell us why he deserves 4 more years given congress will probably stay the same.



I don't agree that Congress will stay the same- I see Dem gains. Obama deserves 4 more years for the 4 years of racist attacks he withstood without losing it-
at least in public. Besides who would be better- not a tea bagger or far righty and a 3rd party candidate would just lead to a Republican getting elected
-just like it did in 2000.


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