It is currently 05/02/24 9:07 pm

Board index » January - December, 2011

All times are UTC - 6 hours




  Page 1 of 1   [ 22 posts ]
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
 Offline sooz06
PostPosted: 12/09/11 1:34 pm • # 1 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
Whoever thought this was a "good idea" must have been imbibing something ~ Image ~ Sooz

Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board Pulls Ad That Blames Women For Getting Date-Raped

By Marie Diamond and Amanda Peterson Beadle posted from ThinkProgress Justice on Dec 9, 2011 at 12:00 pm

Image

The Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board provoked an enormous backlash by airing ads that tell women who are date-raped that they have only themselves and their friends to blame. The ad was part of a $600,000 campaign aimed at curbing excessive drinking.

After hearing from hundreds of rape victims that the ads were extremely upsetting, even traumatizing, the board has decided to pull them:

[quote]

The ads send the message that women are not only at fault for getting themselves raped—a societal bias reflected in and re-enforced by too many court decisions—it's your fault if your friend gets raped, too.

Last night, after receiving hundreds of phone calls and hundreds of email complaints, the PLCB has yanked the ads.

“We feel very strong, and still do, that when we entered the initial discussion about doing a campaign like this it was important to bring the most difficult conversations about over-consumption of alcohol to the forefront and all of the dangers associated with it—date rape being one of these things,â€
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline John59
PostPosted: 12/11/11 6:24 am • # 2 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 02/09/09
Posts: 4713
Sooz, I've been discussing this elsewhere. Here is my opinion;

The ad is warning women of the dangers of drinking in terms of being a victim of rape. I'm not convinced that it blames women.

I've read online that alcohol is often involved in these crimes.

* A woman is more likely to place herself in a potentially dangerous situation (e.g., being alone with someone she does not know well) if she has been drinking. In addition, a potential victim would be less likely to recognize "early signs" of trouble and would be less effective in fleeing or resisting should either become necessary.

* Alcohol also lowers inhibitions and reduces one's "normal" checks on behavior. A perpetrator is less likely to notice and to respect subtle or direct messages to stop.

* Drinking interferes with communication between partners. Discussing what you do and don't want is difficult in an impaired state.

* Assailants may consciously choose an impaired victim. It is easier to force sex on an impaired individual. As such, a potential victim may be encouraged to drink excessively or her drinks may be "spiked" in order to sexually exploit her.

* Drinking/drunkenness is often used to justify behavior that would never be acceptable in a sober state. Ironically, a woman's use of alcohol or drugs often implicates her in the eyes of others. She is viewed as responsible for the assault if she was drinking.

http://www.k-state.edu/media/webzine/Didyouhearyes/alcohol.html


So isn't the ad saying "here is what excessive drinking can lead to"?


Top
  
Quote  
 Offline oskar576
PostPosted: 12/11/11 6:34 am • # 3 
Administrator

Joined: 01/16/16
Posts: 30003
While that may be the intent of the ad is that the message it conveys?
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline sooz06
PostPosted: 12/11/11 7:01 am • # 4 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112

Why not say exactly that, John? ~ this plays right into, and seemingly supports, the "she was asking for it" mindset that has long plagued rape cases ~ excessive drinking is not only a "female" problem ~ excessive drinking leads to MANY "unintended consequences", including deaths ~

Sooz
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline John59
PostPosted: 12/11/11 7:26 am • # 5 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 02/09/09
Posts: 4713
sooz08 wrote:

Why not say exactly that, John? ~ this plays right into, and seemingly supports, the "she was asking for it" mindset that has long plagued rape cases ~ excessive drinking is not only a "female" problem ~ excessive drinking leads to MANY "unintended consequences", including deaths ~

Sooz, obviously excessive drinking not just a female problem, but isn't the ad addressing one aspect of the problem (rape)?

If there was an ad that advised gun owners to keep their guns locked up while not in use, should we then complain that the ad targets gun owners for gun violence or question why it doesn't address criminals using guns?
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline roseanne
PostPosted: 12/11/11 8:34 am • # 6 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 05/05/10
Posts: 14091
"She didn't want to do it, but she couldn't say no".  That implies that had she said no (or been able to say no), there would have been no rape. That's not usually the case, is it? Most rapists are intent on completion of their crime. Perhaps a better message would have been, "When a person drinks too much, their ability to make decisions is impaired. Please drink responsibly."  Without the picture. Or a more generic mock mug shot of one man and one woman, or a man and a woman being led away in handcuffs. There are many, many ways to discourage excessive drinking than depicting a passed-out woman, panties pulled down.

Would it have been any better if the picture had been of a man with his pants around his ankles?  The caption reading "He didn't want to rape her, but he just couldn't control himself"? Image  no
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline John59
PostPosted: 12/11/11 10:36 am • # 7 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 02/09/09
Posts: 4713
roseanne wrote:
"She didn't want to do it, but she couldn't say no".  That implies that had she said no (or been able to say no), there would have been no rape. That's not usually the case, is it? Most rapists are intent on completion of their crime. Perhaps a better message would have been, "When a person drinks too much, their ability to make decisions is impaired. Please drink responsibly."  Without the picture. Or a more generic mock mug shot of one man and one woman, or a man and a woman being led away in handcuffs. There are many, many ways to discourage excessive drinking than depicting a passed-out woman, panties pulled down.

Would it have been any better if the picture had been of a man with his pants around his ankles?  The caption reading "He didn't want to rape her, but he just couldn't control himself"? Image  no

You make a good point, Roseanne. I hadn't thought of it that way. The implication that saying no could prevent rape is implies the woman has control of the situation and need only refuse, which of course is ridiculous and insulting.

Saying "no" implies two adults in a situation where one is making sexual advances and the other is refusing. We would never wonder if a person robbed at gunpoint told their assailant no, they didn't want to be robbed, as if that would have made a difference.

So rethinking this, I think the words were poorly chosen even if the advice they are trying to give is valid. They should have conveyed how vulnerable a person is when drunk, not because they can't say no, but because they can't do much of anything.
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline oskar576
PostPosted: 12/11/11 10:54 am • # 8 
Administrator

Joined: 01/16/16
Posts: 30003
Hence the point as to what the ad intended vs. what was actually conveyed.
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline Chaos333
PostPosted: 12/11/11 11:30 am • # 9 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 01/20/09
Posts: 8188
When asked if the agency considered creating an ad targeting men that tells them it's not OK to rape a woman just because she's been drinking, Witalec responded, “Yes, there [were] many different scenarios. This is just the one the agency chose to go with.â€
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline roseanne
PostPosted: 12/11/11 1:23 pm • # 10 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 05/05/10
Posts: 14091
John59 wrote:
roseanne wrote:
"She didn't want to do it, but she couldn't say no".  That implies that had she said no (or been able to say no), there would have been no rape. That's not usually the case, is it? Most rapists are intent on completion of their crime. Perhaps a better message would have been, "When a person drinks too much, their ability to make decisions is impaired. Please drink responsibly."  Without the picture. Or a more generic mock mug shot of one man and one woman, or a man and a woman being led away in handcuffs. There are many, many ways to discourage excessive drinking than depicting a passed-out woman, panties pulled down.

Would it have been any better if the picture had been of a man with his pants around his ankles?  The caption reading "He didn't want to rape her, but he just couldn't control himself"? Image  no

You make a good point, Roseanne. I hadn't thought of it that way. The implication that saying no could prevent rape is implies the woman has control of the situation and need only refuse, which of course is ridiculous and insulting.

Saying "no" implies two adults in a situation where one is making sexual advances and the other is refusing. We would never wonder if a person robbed at gunpoint told their assailant no, they didn't want to be robbed, as if that would have made a difference.

So rethinking this, I think the words were poorly chosen even if the advice they are trying to give is valid. They should have conveyed how vulnerable a person is when drunk, not because they can't say no, but because they can't do much of anything.
Image 
Top
  
Quote  
kathyk1024
PostPosted: 12/11/11 2:17 pm • # 11 
Devil's advocate.  This is a date rape ad (implying some level of knowing each other) not a stranger rape ad.

A couple has both drank way too much.  I think very possibly if the woman says NO, he will stop.  If she is so drunk or passed out, and she can't say NO.  Bad situation.  

I don't hate this ad as much as you seem to.  It may be partly because of the number of patients I see killing themselves with alcohol.   I don't think it blames the woman for the rape.   It does say being wildy drunk takes away your power, andI think it does.
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline roseanne
PostPosted: 12/12/11 2:49 am • # 12 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 05/05/10
Posts: 14091
kathyk1024 wrote:
Devil's advocate.  This is a date rape ad (implying some level of knowing each other) not a stranger rape ad.

A couple has both drank way too much.  I think very possibly if the woman says NO, he will stop.  If she is so drunk or passed out, and she can't say NO.  Bad situation.  

I don't hate this ad as much as you seem to.  It may be partly because of the number of patients I see killing themselves with alcohol.   I don't think it blames the woman for the rape.   It does say being wildy drunk takes away your power, andI think it does.
Have you dated lately? LOL. Nowdays, kids who do not know each other "hook up" via twitter or texting for a date.   Rape is a violent act about control and power.  A simple "no" wouldn't suffice, as many rape victims who fought and screamed in vain will tell you.

You are right that being wildly drunk takes away power, intelligence and common sense. They could have conveyed that message without being gender specific. It does imply that the woman was at fault. What about the rapist?
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline roseanne
PostPosted: 12/12/11 3:28 am • # 13 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 05/05/10
Posts: 14091

For many, the word “rapeâ€
Top
  
Quote  
kathyk1024
PostPosted: 12/12/11 4:05 am • # 14 
Roseanne - I do not think the ad implied the woman was at fault.  It implied the woman was not conscious or able to say NO and I actually think that is an important message to get out there.  I think the ad is more of a cautionary tale than an assignment of blame after the rape is over.  

I think the ability to say NO is important, roseanne.  I think it will stop of a lot of guys from going further.  Not all but some. 

I haven't dated in years (thank God) but I have been at the casinos on Saturday nights and seen the couples; guys wearing an ironed shirt and dress pants and girls in a one inch skirt and five inch heels.  I've seen pictures of some of my son's female friends on facebook.  Passed out and lying on the floor in Vegas. 

Ultimately rape is the fault of the rapist.   I think it is preferable to prevent than to assign blame after the fact.  
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline sooz06
PostPosted: 12/12/11 5:13 am • # 15 
User avatar
Administrator

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 42112
Kath, I agree absolutely that "Ultimately rape is the fault of the rapist." ~ I also agree absolutely that "... it is preferable to prevent than to assign blame after the fact." ~ but I do see the ad as "... imply[ing] the woman was at fault." ~ this is a very shocking/powerful ad, that went for the reaction ~ on that level, it was successful, but I can easily see how it could re-traumatize those who have been date-raped ~

There is an enormous difference to me between reacting to the message and being in a position to think about it intellectually ~

Sooz
Top
  
Quote  
kathyk1024
PostPosted: 12/12/11 5:39 am • # 16 

I have talked about my attack before.  Looking back on it now and logically from a distance, it's trivial. Nothing bad happened to me physically at all.   I was walking through the Smithsonian Museum of Art in Washington, DC and a guy grabbed me, pushed me up against a wall and said, "I am going to F* you now."    Security was on him in seconds.

It took me years to not be re-traumatized. I changed the way I went on business travel.  I didn't do things like walk through museums alone before meetings.  Little things.  I used to love Degas and now his art reminds me of this guy.

A rape victim has to be more traumatized than that and yea, this ad will probably bother them.  



Top
  
Quote  
kathyk1024
PostPosted: 12/12/11 5:58 am • # 17 
However, I still think alcohol/rape connection has to be addressed and discussed, and I agree with this guy.

December 12, 2011

To PLCB: Repost ad | Spotlighted consequences of binge drinking

The Tribune-DemocratThe Tribune-Democrat

Reacting to a public backlash, the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board last week pulled an online advertisement aimed at the very real connection between excessive drinking and sexual assault.

The ad was probably too in-your-face for some. But we think it portrayed a message worth seeing and understanding.

The ad showed a woman's legs on a bathroom floor, her underwear down around her ankles.

And the ad offered this verbiage: “She didn't want to do it, but she couldn't say no.â€
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline roseanne
PostPosted: 12/12/11 6:04 am • # 18 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 05/05/10
Posts: 14091
kathyk1024 wrote:

I have talked about my attack before.  Looking back on it now and logically from a distance, it's trivial. Nothing bad happened to me physically at all.   I was walking through the Smithsonian Museum of Art in Washington, DC and a guy grabbed me, pushed me up against a wall and said, "I am going to F* you now."    Security was on him in seconds.

It took me years to not be re-traumatized. I changed the way I went on business travel.  I didn't do things like walk through museums alone before meetings.  Little things.  I used to love Degas and now his art reminds me of this guy.

A rape victim has to be more traumatized than that and yea, this ad will probably bother them.  



With the above instance and your remark: I haven't dated in years (thank God) but I have been at the casinos on Saturday nights and seen the couples; guys wearing an ironed shirt and dress pants and girls in a one inch skirt and five inch heels.

I must ask you: How were you dressed or how did  you appear "inviting" when you were attacked?

I'm sure you were dressed "normally" and did nothing to invite the attack.Image

However your remark above also implies that you think women invite rape somehow with the way they dress, considering it was in a discussion of date rape. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Young women dress for attention and maybe sex. Not rape.
Top
  
Quote  
kathyk1024
PostPosted: 12/12/11 6:12 am • # 19 
Who knows what is inviting, roseanne?  I had on a black pencil skirt and white short sleeve blouse, black panty hose and black pumps.

I was however not drunk off my ass and was able to scream, push back and say NO! 
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline roseanne
PostPosted: 12/12/11 6:19 am • # 20 
User avatar
Editorialist

Joined: 05/05/10
Posts: 14091
You didn't answer my most important question. Do you think the girls in "one inch skirts and five inch heels" are inviting rape?

Being drunk does not make rape the girl's fault. As I posted, saying No does not make a rapist stop in most cases. In fact, it usually excites the rapist because he wants resistance. That's what makes it rape. Control and power are what rape is all about. You said you pushed and said No, yet it took security to stop it from what I gather. What if it had been on a deserted street? Do you really think saying No would have stopped him?

I think I'll bow out of this now. I'm too angry.
Top
  
Quote  
kathyk1024
PostPosted: 12/12/11 7:22 am • # 21 
My guy was attempted stranger rape and I don't remember the exact charge anymore.  I'd like to think I'd have stopped him. It didn't happen in a dark alley or a deserted street.  He had an IQ in the 70s and he said he thought I looked pretty and he followed me.  Obviously he had a very bad plan. 

I am not altogether sure that all date rape is about control or power either; I think a whole lot of it is just about sex.   I think there are a lot of misinterpretations about sexual intent when both are drunk and the club atmosphere only adds to the confusion and hideously bad decisions by both parties.  There is a reason the girl is passed out in a public bathroom.  The ad is addressing clubbing not stranger rape. 

I don't think a woman is ever at fault in a rape situation.   I DO think that alcohol takes away her power and truthfully, I think that message has to get out there. 

I do NOT see the ad blaming the woman, I see the ad saying the liquor took away her voice.  Also, I don't think it's uncommon for women to have club sex with men they'd say no to when sober.  Dusk, the club at Caesar's, serves a drink called the panty peeler. Not exactly subtle. 
Top
  
Quote  
 Offline oskar576
PostPosted: 12/12/11 8:28 am • # 22 
Administrator

Joined: 01/16/16
Posts: 30003
The problem with the ad isn't with the message they are trying to convey but with how the ad is perceived. If those who see the ad don't get the intended message then the ad doesn't work and should be redone.
If the message is seen as "Blaming Women For Getting Date-Raped" it clearly doesn't work.
Top
  
Quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

  Page 1 of 1   [ 22 posts ] New Topic Add Reply

Board index » January - December, 2011

All times are UTC - 6 hours



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
© Voices or Choices.
All rights reserved.