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PostPosted: 01/22/12 4:56 pm • # 26 
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I admit I didn't pay attention to every single detail to come out of that scandal...but I never saw any indication that JP ever *confronted* the abuser with what he'd been told. That bothers me.




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PostPosted: 01/23/12 9:15 am • # 27 
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Wow. There's more....but it's not easy to read.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/22/1057341/-F**k-Joe-Paterno

Yes, you read that right- Fuck Joe Paterno. And you can HR me, unfollow me, curse me out or do whatever you want for saying that. Have at it. I don't care.

I don't care that Joe Paterno is dead. I don't care what he did for Penn State. I don't care about how many wins he got, or how great a coach he was. I don't want to see yourglowing tributes to him, or gaze upon your precious photo layouts, or hear about all his great accomplishments. I don't want to hear about what a great man he was, and get told I'm complicit in his death or that I'm not a decent human being since I'm not saddened by his death.

But more than anything, I don't want to read your pathetic excuses for what he did-or more importantly, what he didn't do, or that what he did was not different really than buying chocolate or ignoring kids dealing drugs in the parking lot. And I don't want to hear about innocent until proven guilty, this isn't a court of law and his pathetic inaction is part of the public record.



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PostPosted: 01/23/12 9:29 am • # 28 
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#26 pretty much sums it up, IMO, unless Paterno didn't have a clue that nothing had been done about it.


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 10:43 am • # 29 
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Chaos333 wrote:
Wow. There's more....but it's not easy to read.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/22/1057341/-F**k-Joe-Paterno

Yes, you read that right- Fuck Joe Paterno. And you can HR me, unfollow me, curse me out or do whatever you want for saying that. Have at it. I don't care.

I don't care that Joe Paterno is dead. I don't care what he did for Penn State. I don't care about how many wins he got, or how great a coach he was. I don't want to see yourglowing tributes to him, or gaze upon your precious photo layouts, or hear about all his great accomplishments. I don't want to hear about what a great man he was, and get told I'm complicit in his death or that I'm not a decent human being since I'm not saddened by his death.

But more than anything, I don't want to read your pathetic excuses for what he did-or more importantly, what he didn't do, or that what he did was not different really than buying chocolate or ignoring kids dealing drugs in the parking lot. And I don't want to hear about innocent until proven guilty, this isn't a court of law and his pathetic inaction is part of the public record.

wow, wow, wow. Everyone should read the entire article at the link.

You go, girl!

  


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 2:05 pm • # 30 
He didn't smoke GOP.


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 2:06 pm • # 31 
Where are you people getting the tobacco crap from?


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 2:16 pm • # 32 
jeannept
Are you from Pa? Most of those people also seem to have trouble reading. Sandusky resigned in 1999- three years before this incident. He was not working for Paterno or Penn State in 2002.
I don't understand those piling on here- I really believe most of those talking non-stop about Paterno enabling Sandusky must be victims who never reported their abuser and are now reliving their abuse.
It seems plain to me that the Board of Trustees decided to offer up Paterno hoping it would take the heat from them. They're not clean in this- some had to know about the 1998 investigation in which the police heard Sandusky admitting his guilt to a mother of one victim- the police and a prosecutor did not press charges.  The Board of Trustees now realize they screwed up and two of them claimed they resigned- BUT- only from their positions on the board- not from the board- musical chairs. Then they announced that a banker was now in charge. Are they insane? Who would trust a banker after the mess they put us through. I know Penn State is in the boonies but I didn't know the residents were still living in the past.


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 2:22 pm • # 33 
jeannept
" By everyone just doing the legal thing, the rapist was enabled."


But everyone didn't do the legal thing- Paterno and McQuery did- those they reported the information to did not follow through. The AD and the head of the police for Penn State- they're real police not mall rentals.
State College is the largest town within an hour's drive so they were the right people to tell.  Before this is over the crooked Republican Governor is going to be dragged into this. He was a Prosecutor in that area and passed on this case.
Just like he's passing on charging oil companies for the fracking damage in Pa. and the gas.


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 2:30 pm • # 34 
sooz"at a bare minimum, there should have been a full-scale internal investigation as soon as there was any suspicion or report"


Are you saying that investigation was in any way the responsibility of a football coach?  It was a crime. Football coaches don't investigate crimes.  Maybe Kathy is right.
Paterno's reputation had grown so large that maybe people do think he ran things- but if he ran things why was he still only paid $1.2 million after 46 years as head coach and with more wins than any coach at his level?
His replacement has never been a head coach and has ZERO wins but his starting salary is $2.1 million.  Maybe that's what killed Joe- he was thought so little of by the Administration that a nobody was being paid twice as much.


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 2:32 pm • # 35 
jeannept
"We are all responsible for the safety and welfare of children."


So how many copies of Hillary's book do you have? Have you read it or have you always agreed with her? 


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 2:40 pm • # 36 
jeannept
To me his having anything to do with football means nothing. I would feel the same about anyone in the same circumstances. I don't think his being so famous should make him any more responsible and it sure as hell shouldn't make him any less responsible


So do you have any friends or neighbors who are being abused or molested? Do you know any parents who abuse their kids? Have you ever reported anyone for abuse or do you live in a bubble?


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 2:46 pm • # 37 
jeannept
So, the University says things have to be reported based on harm to oneself or another? 



This goes back to my first post to you that probably irritated you but here you are again- failing to understand what you read.  Kathy was talking about the ethics of counseling.  She must report
anyone who is threatening self harm or harm to others.  The University would have that same policy for any counselors working on campus but not for others.   


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 2:47 pm • # 38 
Bunkerhill, you are so full of shit it's not even real.  Your posts to me are insulting in the extreme.  They show your own ignorance and your ability to make up histories on people you don't even know to fit your insults.  You are soooooo far off it is ridiculous.

I don't really understand the need you had to just attack me personally.  Care to explain why you did that when my only crime appears to be caring about kids?


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 2:47 pm • # 39 
jeannept
Sanduski worked with Paterno. 


Not at the time reported- 2002. He retired in 1999.


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 2:50 pm • # 40 
bunkerhill14 wrote:
jeannept
So, the University says things have to be reported based on harm to oneself or another? 



This goes back to my first post to you that probably irritated you but here you are again- failing to understand what you read.  Kathy was talking about the ethics of counseling.  She must report
anyone who is threatening self harm or harm to others.  The University would have that same policy for any counselors working on campus but not for others.   
I know exactly what Kathy was saying and why.  I was pointing out that the rules for her job do not apply to Paterno.

  


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 2:51 pm • # 41 
jeannept
"The details vary but, Sanduski was behind and the kid's face was smashed up against the shower wall to stifle his screams, etc. "


You'll really over the edge now. I've read McQuery's versions  and that is not one of them-that's your version. I didn't know you were there. McQuery said  it stopped before he left and that both Sandusky and the kid looked at him
but didn't say anything.  
  


"Didn't Sanduski work for Paterno? So, him having an assistant who rapes little boys is fine with Paterno because it's not the football "business"? Paterno didn't care about the little boy? That's what you're saying? Because it wasn't about football "business"? And that's ok? He did the telling"

Looks like you're answering your own questions even when they're wrong. Sandusky did not work for Paterno in 2002.   You should go take a cold shower. You're even lying about what you posted- go back and read what you said about Kathy- that's different than what you said in a later post.


Last edited by bunkerhill14 on 01/23/12 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 01/23/12 3:03 pm • # 42 

So, bunker you disagree with everything I have said based on your version of the facts.  Fine.  You decided to do a personal attack and continue it and continue it.

Amazing.  So do you even think a child was molested and or raped?  If so, care to comment on that instead of me and how you dislike and disagree with all I wrote? 



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PostPosted: 01/23/12 3:09 pm • # 43 
jeannept

"I don't really understand the need you had to just attack me personally. '


Is there some way to attack your posts without you taking it personally. To me you were over the top- as i said before, some people posting- not necessarily here -seem to be victims who probably didn't report their abuser and now they relive the abuse
again and again. Therapy would help more than piling on  Joe Paterno. I've already said several times- Sandusky did not work for Paterno in 2002 and it's been ignored and then you claim I'm making up stuff. You made up a version of the assault in the shower. 


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 3:25 pm • # 44 
jeannept
"So do you even think a child was molested and or raped? If so, care to comment on that instead of me and how you dislike and disagree with all I wrote? "


According to McQuery there was at least assault if not rape- he doesn't think there was anal penetration in one version. McQuery said it stopped before he left.
Many others- including me- don't think he went far enough. He should have attempted to take the child either to his parent(s) or the police. He decided to talk to his Dad. He was 28
at the time but didn't have a secure job- but did have a wife and maybe a kid or two- so it looks like he factored that in- others would not have- the next day he told Paterno but
because of the age difference- 47 years- he apparently didn't describe the incident to Paterno the way he described it to friends later. Paterno reported it to the Athletic Director- his superior-
That guy called McQuery some days later- maybe even a week later- I don't know if McQuery told him and the head of Campus Police the same story he told Paterno or something different- but the reporting stopped there.
They might have told the president of the University but if they did he didn't pass it on either- so he's also been fired.
    You stated that it was common knowledge that Sandusky was abusing kids- that's not true and most of the kids filing charges didn't come forward until late in 2011- 9 years after the assault McQuery saw.
You're letting your emotions run your idea of what happened.  I don't understand the victims in this case or in some of the priest cases- years go by with little reporting then a story of a lawsuit appears and people come out of the woodwork with similar stories- some people waited over 20 years in priest abuse cases. Maybe Sandusky stopped giving out gifts and then the kids decided they were abused.

he was


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 3:30 pm • # 45 
No, bunker, I didn't make up any version of anything.  You have your views based on what you have seen and heard and I have mine based on what I have seen and heard.  We have seen different things and heard different things.  Calling me a liar does not change the fact that you don't know nearly as much as you seem to think you do. Your version is not the only one and not the only valid one.  You could have easily attacked what I said without getting personal.  You chose to get personal.  Throwing in your amateur psychology stuff about I must be a victim, do I live in a bubble, have I ever done anything to report or whatever, etc etc.  That stuff is personal and has nothing to do with the issue of Paterno.  It was your attempt to make me a victim, to attack someone who questions what your hero did.  To blow it off as unimportant because poor girl was a victim and didn't tell and needs therapy.  Shame on you, bunker.  You know nothing personally about me.  You made up all of this stuff based on no knowledge at all.  Shame on you.

 


Last edited by jeannept on 01/23/12 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 01/23/12 3:35 pm • # 46 
bunkerhill14 wrote:
jeannept
"So do you even think a child was molested and or raped? If so, care to comment on that instead of me and how you dislike and disagree with all I wrote? "


According to McQuery there was at least assault if not rape- he doesn't think there was anal penetration in one version. McQuery said it stopped before he left.
Many others- including me- don't think he went far enough. He should have attempted to take the child either to his parent(s) or the police. He decided to talk to his Dad. He was 28
at the time but didn't have a secure job- but did have a wife and maybe a kid or two- so it looks like he factored that in- others would not have- the next day he told Paterno but
because of the age difference- 47 years- he apparently didn't describe the incident to Paterno the way he described it to friends later. Paterno reported it to the Athletic Director- his superior-
That guy called McQuery some days later- maybe even a week later- I don't know if McQuery told him and the head of Campus Police the same story he told Paterno or something different- but the reporting stopped there.
They might have told the president of the University but if they did he didn't pass it on either- so he's also been fired.
    You stated that it was common knowledge that Sandusky was abusing kids- that's not true and most of the kids filing charges didn't come forward until late in 2011- 9 years after the assault McQuery saw.
You're letting your emotions run your idea of what happened.  I don't understand the victims in this case or in some of the priest cases- years go by with little reporting then a story of a lawsuit appears and people come out of the woodwork with similar stories- some people waited over 20 years in priest abuse cases. Maybe Sandusky stopped giving out gifts and then the kids decided they were abused.

he was

Show where I "stated that it was common knowledge that Sandusky was abusing kids".


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 3:40 pm • # 47 
There is a timeline.   Sandusky did not work for Paterno in 2002 when the alleged attack took place.  The timeline is not an opinion.

June 1999 – Sandusky retires from Penn State but still holds emeritus status.

Dec. 28, 1999 – Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1999 Alamo Bowl.

Summer 2000 – Boy known as Victim 3 meets Sandusky through The Second Mile when he is between seventh and eighth grade.

Fall 2000 – A janitor named James Calhoun observes Sandusky in the showers of the Lasch Football Building with a young boy, known as Victim 8, pinned up against the wall, performing oral sex on the boy. He tells other janitorial staff immediately. Fellow Office of Physical Plant employee Ronald Petrosky cleans the showers at Lasch and sees Sandusky and the boy, who he describes as being between the ages of 11 and 13.

Calhoun tells other physical plant employees what he saw, including Jay Witherite, his immediate supervisor. Witherite tells him to whom he should report the incident. Calhoun was a temporary employee and never makes a report. Victim 8's identity is unknown.

March 1, 2002 – A Penn State graduate assistant enters the locker room at the Lasch Football Building. In the showers, he sees a naked boy, known as Victim 2, whose age he estimates to be 10 years old, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant tells his father immediately.

March 2, 2002 – In the morning, the graduate assistant calls Coach Joe Paterno and goes to Paterno's home, where he reports what he has seen.

March 3, 2002 – Paterno calls Tim Curley, Penn State Athletic Director to his home the next day and reports a version of what the grad assistant had said.

March 2002 – Later in the month the graduate assistant is called to a meeting with Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz. The grad assistant reports what he has seen and Curley and Schultz say they will look into it.

March 27, 2002 (approximate) – The graduate assistant hears from Curley. He is told that Sandusky's locker room keys are taken away and that the incident has been reported to The Second Mile. The graduate assistant is never questioned by university police and no other entity conducts an investigation until the graduate assistant testifies in Grand Jury in December 2010.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/penn-state-scandal-timeline-jerry-sandusky_n_1084204.html



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PostPosted: 01/23/12 3:41 pm • # 48 
jeannept

"amateur psychology"

I'm not an expert but I do have a masters. That's a little above amateur


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 3:46 pm • # 49 
jeannept
"The people around Sanduski knew that this guy has the "charity" which makes young boys easily available to him. They knew he took these boys to different states etc for games, rooms shared, showers shared. They knew he showered with the kids at the university. A guy who also works with Paterno tells Paterno he saw Sanduski raping a boy in the shower. The details vary but, Sanduski was behind and the kid's face was smashed up against the shower wall to stifle his screams, etc. Now, of course a thought should go to it may not be true. However, the what if it is true is way too great to not act and act quickly. It's not just what Sanduski may have done to this boy but the fact that there are all these other little boys that are available to him and vulberable to him. Shouldn't a red flag pop up in your mind if you hear of this possibility? Wouldn't a a caring human want to make sure Sanduski couldn't hurt another kid while it's being investigated. Wouldn't you want to make sure it is being investigated? The charge is horrible so wouldn't you want the one who told you fired if it turned out he lied? None of this happened, Sanduski still there, still with the kids, the guy who told still there. Wouldn't you want to know, so, are the little kids safe or not?

Second Mile "business"? Raping little boys is business? What about Pen State "business"? The rape was there. I am really having trouble believing that the rape of a child means so little, is of so little importance that it can just be tossed away as "business". Didn't Sanduski


That's your post and unless your thinking is solid concrete it says it was common knowledge what
Sandusky was doing.


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PostPosted: 01/23/12 3:47 pm • # 50 
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IMO, the point is that a moral and ethical individual follows up in matters such as these in order to ensure that there are no further victims and that the predators are dealt with.
Mr. Paterno was content to go by the book. He may not have had any further legal responsibility but he did have a moral and ethical one.


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