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PostPosted: 11/16/12 11:05 am • # 1 
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Saved this the other day but just got around to reading it ~ Obama clearly has the better hand here ~ and I just don't believe the GOP/TP learned anything from the recent election ~ PLUS some of the most virulent House TP "darlings" [Allen West, Joe Walsh plus others] have been returned to irrelevancy, which is a bonus ~ several "live links" to more/corroborating info in the original ~ Sooz

Wednesday, Nov 14, 2012 07:34 AM CST
The price of Republican hubris
Republicans could have gotten a far better deal from President Obama last year, if only they hadn't been so cocky
By Steve Kornacki

President Obama has apparently decided what price Republicans should pay for their refusal to work with him the past four years: $800 billion.

That’s the difference between the amount of new revenue Republicans put on the table in the summer of 2011, when they pushed the country to the brink of a debt default, and what Obama is now demanding as discussions over the gradual fiscal slope open.

Obama will hold his first post-election press conference later today, and his press secretary indicated on Tuesday that he would use it to outline his call for $1.6 trillion in new revenue – to be achieved through an end to the Bush rates on income over $250,000, the Buffett Rule, and tightening loopholes. By contrast, as the Aug. 1, 2011, debt ceiling approached, House Speaker John Boehner had proposed a far more modest $800 billion revenue scheme, one that relied on reforming the tax code and not raising rates on the wealthy.

Whether Obama will get all or most of what he’s now demanding remains to be seen. There’s also the question of entitlements. The deal Boehner and Obama toyed with last year included cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, and Republicans are now insisting they be included in any new deal. But Obama’s Democratic base is in much less of a mood to play along now, in the wake of their election victory, and is pressing the president hard to take entitlements off the table. It remains to be seen what Obama will be willing to accept on this front, but his opening offer on taxes at least suggests his appetite for cuts will be reduced.

This, of course, speaks to the leverage with which Obama suddenly finds himself. For one thing, he just spent the last year running for reelection on a promise to raise income tax rates on those making over $250,000. Now that he’s won a resounding victory at the polls, it’s a lot easier for him to insist on this provision. There’s also the basic nature of the Dec. 31 deadline policymakers are now facing. The immediate consequences of failing to reach a deal are a lot more favorable to Obama than to Republicans. And initial polling suggests that Americans would be far more likely to blame the GOP if a deal isn’t reached. So Obama is in a position to ask for a lot more than he asked for last year, and to give in on a lot less.

There’s another reason for Obama’s superior bargaining position: Republican hubris.

The story goes like this. When Obama was elected, Republicans immediately settled on a strategy of reflexive opposition and obstruction. If Obama was for it, they were against it – passionately and unwaveringly. And for this, they were initially rewarded. Burdened by a gruesome economy, Obama’s approval rating fell to under 50 percent early in his term, and his party suffered a midterm drubbing in 2010. The message Republicans took from this: Keep doing what we’ve been doing.

Except after 2010, they had a measure of power in Washington, since the election had given them control of the House. And in the first two years of Obama’s term, the GOP had been overtaken by the absolutist Tea Party movement, which believed not just in opposing Obama but also in cleaning the Republican Party of leaders who weren’t ideologically pure or who had any instinct for compromise. Sensing this movement’s power, most top Republicans gave in and played along – and the pressure to prove their purity only intensified after 2010.

This was particularly true in the House, where Boehner had no choice but to call for a vote in early 2011 on Paul Ryan’s plan to transform Medicare into a voucher program, and just about every Republican in the chamber had no choice but to support it. Boehner also had no choice but to play along with the purists in forcing confrontations with Obama over continuing resolutions to fund the government and turning the Aug. 1 debt ceiling deadline into a national crisis. Boehner, a Washington lifer who’d once been a pragmatist in the House, had an instinct to strike a deal with Obama, which is where the $800 billion revenue offer came from. But even that was too much for the true believers on the right, and to prevent a mutiny, Boehner was forced to pull back from the “grand bargain.”

What may have saved the country from a debt default was Wall Street, which panicked and pressured Republican leaders – who in the wake of Dodd-Frank were raking in massive sums of campaign money from the financial services industry – to cut some kind of a deal before Aug. 1. That’s where the “fiscal cliff” came from – a package of automatic cuts falling heavily on defense and largely sparing the safety net set to kick in on Jan. 1, 2013, in the absence of a deal.

Combined with the scheduled expiration of the Bush tax cuts on the same day, it was clear back then that Obama would have significant leverage if he could win reelection. But this is where Republican hubris comes in. When the deal was finally cut in 2011, Obama’s approval rating had fallen to the lowest point of his presidency, into the low 40s. Comparisons to George H.W. Bush in 1992 and Jimmy Carter in 1980 were beginning to seem apt. This sense was heightened on the right, where Obama’s presidency was treated as an epic failure from the very beginning, one that had alienated the majority of Americans. In other words, Republicans recognized that Obama would have the upper hand on the “fiscal cliff” if he could win reelection; they just figured he was a goner and that they didn’t have anything to worry about.

So now they will surely object to his $1.6 trillion revenue demand. But they have only themselves to blame for their weak position. A much, much better deal was theirs last year if only they hadn’t been too cocky to take it.

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/14/the_pri ... an_hubris/


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PostPosted: 11/17/12 3:21 pm • # 2 
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oh man. that last line is brilliant.

i was furious when the GOP backed out of that deal. furious. it was a great deal. it would have been incredible for the NATION if they had done it. and it would have saved us from a second credit downgrade.

hubris.


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PostPosted: 12/03/12 11:04 am • # 3 
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There has been a ton of press the past few days on the GOP/TP's phony surprise and outrage at Obama's resolve to not renew the gwb tax cuts for the top earners ~ Orrin Hatch claims Obama is using a bait-and-switch technique ~ the GOP/TP apparently paid NO attention during the campaign, because NOTHING Obama is saying/offering now differs in any material aspect from what he's been saying for months ~ the problem I see is that the GOP/TP refuses to recognize that Obama was reelected with wide electoral and public majorities because of what he was saying ~ another problem I see is how weak a majority leader Boehner is ~ but the mindset Boehner exposes below is sheer lunacy ~ :g ~ Sooz

Boehner: No ‘Difference’ If Revenue Comes From Middle Class Or Super Rich
By Igor Volsky on Dec 2, 2012 at 9:46 am

House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH), who has refused to support raising marginal tax rates on the richest Americans in order to avert the so-called fiscal cliff, told Fox News Sunday that it doesn’t matter if the government raises revenue by reducing programs or eliminating tax deductions that also benefit lower and middle class Americans or asks the wealthiest to pay more:

Quote:
CHIRS WALLACE (HOST): You talked about the fact that the President won and you came out with a concession the day after the election and they point out that the president campaigned on raising tax rates, you know, and it was the big issue, between him and Romney, and, they say, just as he had to cave, after your victory, in the 2010 midterms, now, it is your turn to cave on tax rates.

BOEHNER: Listen, what is this difference where the money comes from? We put $800 billion worth of revenue, which is what he is asking for, out of eliminating the top two tax rates. But, here’s the problem, Chris, when you go and increase tax rates, you make it more difficult for our economy to grow, after that income, the small business income, it is going to get taxed at a higher rate and as a result we’re gonna see slower economic growth, we can’t cut our way out of this problem, nor can we grow our way out of the problem, we have to have a balanced approach and what the President wants to do will slow or economy at a time when he says he wants the economy to grow and create jobs.

Despite Boehner’s rhetoric, there is no economic evidence to suggest that taxing income above $250,000 hurts the economy. In fact, business thrived during President Clinton’s tenure, as the wealthy paid more.

There is a clear “difference” to where the “money comes from,” however, and asking higher-income Americans who have benefited the most to pay more is fairer than gutting critical entitlement programs during a slow economic recovery. While middle-class incomes have stagnated, America’s top income bracket has enjoyed a period of exceptionally low tax rates thanks largely to caps on investment income and tax cuts put in place by former president George W. Bush. These super-rich Americans have fared well under President Obama, too; corporate profits are skyrocketing and the total number of millionaires in the US has exploded during his term.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/12/02/1268801/boehner-no-difference-if-revenue-comes-from-middle-class-or-super-rich/


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PostPosted: 12/03/12 11:12 am • # 4 
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If, as he says, there's "no difference" wtf is his problem?
Get on with it, Boner, or get outta the nation's way.


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PostPosted: 12/04/12 10:55 am • # 5 
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This proves the theory that GOP/TPers are not even remotely familiar with ... "reality" ~ :g ~ there are "live links" to more/corroborating info in the original ~ Sooz

Don't call it a 'counteroffer'
By Steve Benen - Mon Dec 3, 2012 4:06 PM EST

Last week, the Obama administration presented congressional Republicans with a formal offer in their ongoing fiscal talks, and challenged GOP leaders to come up with a plan of their own. Today, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and the House Republican leadership sent a letter to the White House that's been described as a "counteroffer," but that's not quite correct.

House Speaker John Boehner on Monday sent a counter offer to President Obama to avoid the looming fiscal cliff that raises $800 billion without increasing tax raise tax rates on top earners and makes $1.4 trillion in cuts and reforms to entitlement and discretionary spending programs.

Boehner's offer does not outline how to deal with a country fast approaching its debt limit and sequestrations' across-the-board spending cuts.

So, what's the pitch? Under this proposal, Republicans would keep all of the Bush-era tax rates, but accept $800 billion in new revenue. How? Through "through pro-growth tax reform that closes special-interest loopholes and deductions while lowering rates."

From there, the GOP leaders want to cut $600 billion from Medicare and Medicaid; cut $300 billion from mandatory programs; cut $200 billion by changing the consumer price index; and then cut another $300 billion in further discretionary spending.

To call this a "counteroffer" is to strip the word of meaning. Under the GOP plan, Republicans get the more than $1 trillion in spending cuts Obama already gave them; Republicans get the entitlement cuts they want; Republicans get hundreds of billions of dollars in additional cuts to programs they haven't identified; and Republicans get all of the Bush-era tax rates they've prioritized.

This isn't a "counteroffer"; it's a Christmas wish list written by kids without access to calculators.

But Democrats would get $800 billion in new revenue, right? Well, no, probably not -- Boehner says he can get the money by closing "loopholes and deductions," but we know that's not true. Either GOP officials would start forcing the middle class to feel the pinch, or they'd fall far short of $800 billion.

What's more, notice that the Republicans' letter doesn't actually include real details. Sure, some numbers are thrown around, but I can just as easily write a letter to the Speaker promising to raise $18 gajillion by selling unicorns to Bigfoot -- the numbers don't mean anything unless they're backed up by substantive policies.

Postscript: In case you were wondering -- I was -- the letter makes no reference to GOP leaders' willingness to consider extending unemployment aid, extending the payroll tax break, raising the debt ceiling, or investing so much as a penny in economic growth policies.

One should generally be reluctant to make broad assumptions, but I suspect the Republicans' silence on these issues suggests they're not open to the possibility.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/12/03/15649952-dont-call-it-a-counteroffer?lite


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PostPosted: 12/04/12 11:07 am • # 6 
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I can just as easily write a letter to the Speaker promising to raise $18 gajillion by selling unicorns to Bigfoot -- the numbers don't mean anything unless they're backed up by substantive policies.

It sums up the R's mindset. Unicorns and Bigfoot. Let's all gallop away on the back of unicorns to a lala land populated with Bigfoot(s) (or is that Bigfeet? : ) where real numbers don't matter. Neither do the middleclass or poor........... :angry


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PostPosted: 12/04/12 11:12 am • # 7 
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I'd be just fine for the Dems to get full credit for extending the middle-income tax cuts ~ Sooz

House GOP crafts 'Doomsday Plan'
By Steve Benen - Mon Dec 3, 2012 3:22 PM EST

The House Republican line on taxes is pretty straightforward: unless President Obama agrees to extend lower tax rates on income above $250,000, the GOP will force higher tax rates on everyone. The problem, of course, is that everyone knows Republicans don't really mean it.

Unlike some of the other recent hostage standoffs, GOP officials don't seem at all interested in pulling the metaphorical trigger. The challenge for House Republican lawmakers becomes one of how best to lose gracefully. Apparently, the "Doomsday Plan" is taking shape.

Quote:
...House Republicans would allow a vote on extending the Bush middle class tax cuts (the bill passed in August by the Senate) and offer the President nothing more: no extension of the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on closing loopholes. Congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt ceiling.

Two senior Republican elected officials tell me this doomsday plan is becoming the most likely scenario.... Under one variation of this Doomsday Plan, House Republicans would allow a vote on extending only the middle class tax cuts and Republicans, to express disapproval at the failure to extend all tax cuts, would vote "present" on the bill, allowing it to pass entirely on Democratic votes.

That'll show 'em -- Republicans would refuse to vote for middle-class tax breaks to spite those rascally Democrats.

Nevertheless, as a practical matter, this would more or less be a strategy based on Rep. Tom Cole's (R-Okla.) advice that Congress take President Obama's offer on taxes, and then move on to everything else. Republicans wouldn't get the blame for new tax increases, and they'd regain some leverage for the next self-imposed, man-made, easily-avoided crisis.

It seems like a fairly smart move, though GOP leaders will reportedly avoid making it unless/until the rest of the fiscal talks fall through.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/12/03/15649330-house-gop-crafts-doomsday-plan?lite


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PostPosted: 12/04/12 11:18 am • # 8 
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i have said it since before the election: the GOP has NO leverage on the tax issue. Obama would rather see the middle class tax cuts, but he won't give in to the upper bracket cut. as to the rest of this stuff, so what? they were going to try to stop everything else ANYWAY. who cares?


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PostPosted: 12/04/12 11:24 am • # 9 
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Exactly, Mac ~ if you haven't already, read thru our "6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam" thread ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 12/04/12 11:44 am • # 10 
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sooz06 wrote:
Exactly, Mac ~ if you haven't already, read thru our "6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam" thread ~

Sooz


yeah, i read it. but i just reread it. pretty much spot on.


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PostPosted: 12/04/12 4:33 pm • # 11 
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Perspective rules! ~ what I find near extraordinary is Boehner having the brass to say Obama's plan is "not serious" and then turning around and offering this load of crap ~ I predict Boehner is going to find out exactly how serious Obama's plan is ~ Sooz

The plan the right is pretending not to like
By Steve Benen - Tue Dec 4, 2012 9:58 AM EST

House Republican leaders presented a debt-reduction "plan" to the White House yesterday, which GOP officials insist is a "serious" offer. To help underscore why it's so very difficult to take the Republican proposal seriously, I put together this image, showing what each side would get as part of this attempt at "compromise."

Image

If you're thinking this looks a little tilted in one direction, and that no sane person could characterize this as a balanced attempt to reach a bipartisan agreement, we're on the same page.

But here's the kicker: conservative activists are criticizing the GOP offer, or at least, they're pretending to.

Quote:
Scoot over Democrats. The far right is launching its own attacks against Speaker John Boehner's "fiscal cliff" counter proposal -- a sign that unrest could be brewing within his House GOP Conference.

"Sadly this plan leaves conservatives wanting," declared Tim Phillips, president of Americans for Prosperity, the advocacy group partially backed by billionaires David and Charles Koch, in a statement Monday.

Meanwhile, Heritage Action, the Heritage Foundation's lobbying wing, alerted its members in an e-mail: "Not only are Republican leaders asking their members to go back on their promise not to raise taxes on the American people, but they appear unwilling to fight for the bold entitlement reforms that won them the House in 2010."

So, as far as the right-wing GOP base is concerned, a debt-reduction deal in which Republicans make no concessions at all represents an enormous sellout.

Except, in this case, I don't really believe the base is sincere.

We'll probably never know for sure what leading far-right activists are thinking, but by complaining about a deal in which GOP gives up nothing, they seem to be engaged in some political theater.

In other words, the Koch brothers' operation and the Heritage Foundation's lobbying wing are trying to offer some cover for House Speaker John Boehner and the Republican leadership -- if the left and right both claim to oppose the GOP's so-called "counteroffer," then maybe it's the moderate solution between two extremes.

Don't believe it. The offer from Republican leaders yesterday is a silly, far-right fantasy.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/12/04/15671839-the-plan-the-right-is-pretending-not-to-like?lite


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PostPosted: 12/04/12 5:09 pm • # 12 
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clue to AFP: you fuckers lost the last election, and your place at the table.

get in line.


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