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PostPosted: 12/08/12 10:45 am • # 1 
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Good commentary and rationale ~ the "drug war" has repeatedly proven itself to be horrendously expensive and an epic fail ~ and severely impacting organized crime is just an added benefit in my view ~ emphasis/bolding below is mine ~ Sooz

Drug legalization ‘worst thing that could happen’ to organized crime, say advocates
By Samantha Kimmey
Friday, December 7, 2012 20:29 EST

In light of the recent legalization of marijuana in Colorado and Washington, the BBC interviewed two advocates of further reforms, both in the U.S. and world-wide.

The BBC sat down with Ethan Nadelmann, founder of the N.Y.C.-based Drug Policy Alliance, and Richard Branson, chair of Virgin Group. His son produced the documentary “Breaking the Taboo,” which critiques the costs and strategies of enforcing current drug laws.

“Countries that are oppressive about drugs are suffering, and the people in particular are suffering. Countries like Portugal or Spain, which are treating the drug as a health issue, rather than a criminal issue, are getting on top of the problem,” said Branson.

“This is a lot like what happened with the repeal of alcohol prohibition in America in the late twenties and early thirties,” said Nadelmann, “where more and more state governments began to repeal their own state alcohol prohibition laws, and eventually the national government followed suit.”

When asked if legalization could increase drug use, he replied, “Is there a risk of more people using marijuana? There is a risk. But I don’t think it’s a risk of a dramatic increase. And meanwhile, no longer arresting 750,000 Americans a year, no longer spending tens of billions of dollars to enforce these unenforceable prohibitions, taking the money out of the hands of the gangsters, allowing police to focus on real crime, those are the arguments that are compelling for most Americans.”

When asked if legalization could make “drug gangs” more powerful, Branson referred to Portugal. The country itself began providing heroin to heroin addicts, “pulling the rug” under drug kingpins while reducing the number of people using heroin, all while combating HIV by providing clean needles.

“The worst thing that could happen to the gangsters and organized crime is for marijuana or other drugs to be legalized,” Nadelmann said. “Because quite frankly they would no longer play a role in the market. Their competitive advantage is in the employment of violence and intimidation, not in marketing, not in dealing with government regulations.”

Branson expressed his desire that in a few years, “I hope that nobody in the world will be sent to prison for taking drugs ever again. I hope that anybody that has a drug problem will be helped. I hope that some countries will experiment with deregulation of drugs like marijuana. And I hope that the money that the state gets from deregulation will go towards education, health, and helping people who actually have drug problems or alcohol problems.”

Watch the video, via the BBC, below.



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/12/07/drug-legalization-worst-thing-that-could-happen-to-organized-crime-say-advocates/


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PostPosted: 12/08/12 11:12 am • # 2 
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Too bad the Reagans of the world didn't think before acting/reacting.
The "war on drugs" has generated such vast amounts of capital for the criminals and wasted so much in the way of resources that the criminals have infiltrated every single segment of society from charitable organizations to major corporations to government.


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PostPosted: 12/08/12 3:39 pm • # 3 
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he is totally right of course. treating addiction as a crime is like criminalizing sarcasm. it makes zero sense.


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PostPosted: 12/08/12 6:13 pm • # 4 
It might be the worst thing to happen to organized crime, but do we want to live in a society where street drugs can be purchased as easily as aspirin and everyone is high and addicted to drugs?


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PostPosted: 12/08/12 6:16 pm • # 5 
What I would propose is not that street drugs be legalized, but that the "penalty" shall not be prison, but rehab.


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PostPosted: 12/08/12 6:21 pm • # 6 
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I don't think heavy drugs should be legalized, but lots of things can be abused, SciFi ~ do you see grass as more serious/damaging than liquor?

Sooz


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PostPosted: 12/08/12 6:32 pm • # 7 
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I abuse food.
Reckon it should be illegal as well.

Edit: Fergit the off colour jokes. I've heard 'em all.


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PostPosted: 12/08/12 8:46 pm • # 8 
Substance abuse should be a public health issue and not a criminal justice issue.


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PostPosted: 12/09/12 9:36 am • # 9 
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Actually it is and always has been.
It's been grossly mishandled.


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PostPosted: 12/09/12 11:09 am • # 10 
Quote:
I don't think heavy drugs should be legalized, but lots of things can be abused, SciFi ~ do you see grass as more serious/damaging than liquor?


I don't drink alcohol and everytime I am in a car I wonder if some idiot might plow into my car, possibly killing me or my passengers. I think that the penalty for possessing or consuming alcohol (even tiny amounts) should be the same as for marijuana.

But to answer your question: Yes, personally I believe that marijuana is physically more dangerous than alcohol. Marijuana causes an altered state of consciousness, and it is my belief that the brain experiences an altered state of consciousness because it is being damaged in some way. We all know that brain damage is not reversible.

I don't think that the penalty for consuming street drugs should be imprisonment -- but it shouldn't be completely legal either. I think the penalty for consuming street drugs should be involuntary stay at a detox center or hospital.


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PostPosted: 12/09/12 1:27 pm • # 11 
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SciFiGuy wrote:
It might be the worst thing to happen to organized crime, but do we want to live in a society where street drugs can be purchased as easily as aspirin and everyone is high and addicted to drugs?


red herring. legalization doesn't imply that, nor should it.


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PostPosted: 12/09/12 2:06 pm • # 12 
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Yes, personally I believe that marijuana is physically more dangerous than alcohol.

Belief is nice as a personal emotional reaction but it should not be part of any legislation. That should be based on unbiased evidence and research.


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PostPosted: 12/09/12 2:40 pm • # 13 
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But to answer your question: Yes, personally I believe that marijuana is physically more dangerous than alcohol. Marijuana causes an altered state of consciousness, and it is my belief that the brain experiences an altered state of consciousness because it is being damaged in some way. We all know that brain damage is not reversible.

ALCOHOL’S DAMAGING EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN

Difficulty walking, blurred vision, slurred speech, slowed reaction times, impaired memory: Clearly, alcohol affects the brain. Some of these impairments are detectable after only one or two drinks and quickly resolve when drinking stops. On the other hand, a person who drinks heavily over a long period of time may have brain deficits that persist well after he or she achieves sobriety. Exactly how alcohol affects the brain and the likelihood of reversing the impact of heavy drinking on the brain remain hot topics in alcohol research today.

We do know that heavy drinking may have extensive and far–reaching effects on the brain, ranging from simple “slips” in memory to permanent and debilitating conditions that require lifetime custodial care. And even moderate drinking leads to short–term impairment, as shown by extensive research on the impact of drinking on driving.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm

It has always been my opinion that the damaging effect alcohol has on the brain has been somewhat suppressed. Government has a stake in the sale of alcohol. ;)

That being said, there isn't an Rx pain drug out there that doesn't cause damage/alterations to the brain. That is what they are for. Suppressing pain receptors. Even the popular anti-smoking drug, Chantix, alters the brain. Anti-psychotic drugs alter the brain. The <perhaps> oldest drug, opium/morphine has been in use for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.


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PostPosted: 12/09/12 2:53 pm • # 14 
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SciFiGuy wrote:
I don't drink alcohol and everytime I am in a car I wonder if some idiot might plow into my car, possibly killing me or my passengers. I think that the penalty for possessing or consuming alcohol (even tiny amounts) should be the same as for marijuana.

that is how the law reads now, and i have no doubt it will continue to read that way, no matter what the legal standing of pot. driving impaired, whether it be on pot, heroin, alcohol, painkillers, glue or sleep deprivation is a crime.

But to answer your question: Yes, personally I believe that marijuana is physically more dangerous than alcohol. Marijuana causes an altered state of consciousness, and it is my belief that the brain experiences an altered state of consciousness because it is being damaged in some way. We all know that brain damage is not reversible.


there is an abundant body of evidence that suggests that there is no long term health impact with pot smoking. that means no heart disease, no lung disease, no fatalities, no respiratory illnesses, no brain injuries. considering how widespread the usage is, one might think that one could find ONE medical case of a chronic health effect associated with pot, but one can't.

alcohol, on the other hand, is DIRECTLY responsible for a vast number of chronic health affects including, but not limited to, liver and kidney disease and heart disease, including a large number of fatal cases.

your beliefs and the facts are at odds with one another, but there is a simple solution. acquaint yourself with the facts. i would suggest reviewing the literature out of Holland on this subject, although THIS article from the US is also excellent on the subject of cancerous/precancerous tumors:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 193338.htm


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PostPosted: 12/09/12 2:55 pm • # 15 
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roseanne wrote:
But to answer your question: Yes, personally I believe that marijuana is physically more dangerous than alcohol. Marijuana causes an altered state of consciousness, and it is my belief that the brain experiences an altered state of consciousness because it is being damaged in some way. We all know that brain damage is not reversible.

ALCOHOL’S DAMAGING EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN

Difficulty walking, blurred vision, slurred speech, slowed reaction times, impaired memory: Clearly, alcohol affects the brain. Some of these impairments are detectable after only one or two drinks and quickly resolve when drinking stops. On the other hand, a person who drinks heavily over a long period of time may have brain deficits that persist well after he or she achieves sobriety. Exactly how alcohol affects the brain and the likelihood of reversing the impact of heavy drinking on the brain remain hot topics in alcohol research today.

We do know that heavy drinking may have extensive and far–reaching effects on the brain, ranging from simple “slips” in memory to permanent and debilitating conditions that require lifetime custodial care. And even moderate drinking leads to short–term impairment, as shown by extensive research on the impact of drinking on driving.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm

It has always been my opinion that the damaging effect alcohol has on the brain has been somewhat suppressed. Government has a stake in the sale of alcohol. ;)

That being said, there isn't an Rx pain drug out there that doesn't cause damage/alterations to the brain. That is what they are for. Suppressing pain receptors. Even the popular anti-smoking drug, Chantix, alters the brain. Anti-psychotic drugs alter the brain. The <perhaps> oldest drug, opium/morphine has been in use for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.


alcohol is clearly a really bad drug in anything higher than recreational quantity.


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PostPosted: 12/09/12 3:39 pm • # 16 
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Portugal is probably even a better example. They have even legalised heroin (which doesn't mean you can buy it at the local store).


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