I've no solution for overcoming all the voilence but at least something can be done to reduce the results and the first step is strict, enforced gun control.
I didn't say ban, but control.
The cement heads need to understand the difference.

While in theory I agree, it's not so simple ~ I'm thinking we must confront the separate issues in tandem to make any real progress ~ maybe the biggest problem I see is convincing the gun lobby that they have a MORAL RESPONSIBILITY to actively partipate in creating a safer environment ~ their right to own guns does NOT trump peoples'/childrens' right to live just because someone with a gun has problems and is having a bad day ~

Sooz

The excuse-makers and the easily-fooled are doing everything they can to avoid facing this head on: http://currenteventsii.yuku.com/topic/1 ... ass-murder

Heheheheh... the link says ...ass-murder.

They'd need morals first.
They only want to sell more guns no matter who pays the price.

There is a pervasive attitude that people should protect themselves from any insult with violence. My cousin has brought up how the Isrealis armed their teachers years ago. How can we think it is sane or ok or we would want our kids in a classroom where the teacher has a machine gun? Several countries are trying to recreate ancient religious societies where the punishment for everything is death, even for being the victim of rape. Its not about the US, Oskar., or about guns. It is about how violence became the appropriate response to anything.

Is it actually an increase in a "violent mindset" or the pervavsiveness of the mass media coverage of incidents of violence like this that is part of the problem?

For a certain type of mentality may not so much create horror but set a target to be beaten ....

Its not about the US, Oskar.,

This happened in the US ... with GUNS not with knives as in China, where 22 were injured, not killed.

To change the culture of violence will take 2-3 generations. At a rate of 20+ thousand gun deaths/year are USians willing to sacrifice that many (some 1,000,000 lives) or is it not wise to at least reduce the number of deaths through gun control?

Oskar yes this happened in the US but the premise of the thread is violence not this specific incident. No one can argue that the US has a problem with gun violence but the violent mindset goes far beyond the US. If you want it to be about guns in the US ok but I sm discussing a worldwide mindset that violence is an acceptable response to any insult.

Sooz wrote:

I agree. There are a few exceptions here and there, but for the most part, I believe that mental illness is at the heart of most murders, and definitely at the heart of mass murders.

I said, "The cause of this shooting was mental illness, not a violent society."
To which Oskar replied: "You have evidence of this?"

Yes, we have decades of empirical evidence that mass murderers are severely mentally ill. (Schizophrenic for the most part.)

---

Everyone should probably read this. It addresses what I said. It is a very interesting piece by a mother of a young son who is mentally ill. He is 13-years-old and goes around threatening to kill people, including his mother.

I am Adam Lanza's Mother

When one cannot support one's argument modify the premise.
Nice try.

I just came across that article SciFi. Very compelling. We sometimes close our eyes to some of the core problems. I hope I don't step on your toes, but I'll post the article here:

I Am Adam Lanza’s Mother


Liza Long

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

"I can wear these pants," he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

"They are navy blue," I told him. "Your school's dress code says black or khaki pants only."

"They told me I could wear these," he insisted. "You're a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!"

"You can't wear whatever pants you want to," I said, my tone affable, reasonable. "And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You're grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school."

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan-they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn't have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don't know what's wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He's been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he's in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He's in a good mood most of the time. But when he's not, watch out. And it's impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district's most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can't function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, "Look, Mom, I'm really sorry. Can I have video games back today?"

"No way," I told him. "You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly."

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. "Then I'm going to kill myself," he said. "I'm going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself."

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

"Where are you taking me?" he said, suddenly worried. "Where are we going?"

"You know where we are going," I replied.

"No! You can't do that to me! You're sending me to hell! You're sending me straight to hell!"

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. "Call the police," I said. "Hurry."

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn't escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I'm still stronger than he is, but I won't be for much longer.

The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork-"Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…"

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You'll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying-that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, "I hate you. And I'm going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here."

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I've heard those promises for years. I don't believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, "What are your expectations for treatment?" I wrote, "I need help."

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza's mother. I am Dylan Klebold's and Eric Harris's mother. I am Jason Holmes's mother. I am Jared Loughner's mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho's mother. And these boys-and their mothers-need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it's easy to talk about guns. But it's time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son's social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. "If he's back in the system, they'll create a paper trail," he said. "That's the only way you're ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you've got charges."

I don't believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael's sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn't deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise-in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill-Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation's largest treatment centers in 2011.

No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, "Something must be done."

I agree that something must be done. It's time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That's the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.

http://gawker.com/5968818?utm_campaign= ... socialflow

SciFi, you're entitled to your opinion ~ and I'm entitled to mine ~ I believe we do live in a violent society ~ and when we take a step back and think about it, it's not such a stretch ~ our entire waking lives are surrounded and shrouded in violence ~ from our daily news [local, national, international], to tv and movies, to books, to newspapers and magazines, to the internet ~ I honestly cannot remember the last time I went thru a whole day without some report of violent acts ~ I see any and every murder, no matter what prompts it, as an act of supreme violence ~ mental illness might be a reason for, but it does not negate, the violence ~

Sooz