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PostPosted: 12/15/12 9:01 am • # 1 
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:angry Video at link

Mike Huckabee Blames CT Shooting On Lack Of Religion In Schools

Mike Huckabee, the former Republican Arkansas governor who lost his 2008 presidential bid so he became a Fox News pundit instead, played a little game of right-wing "blame the victim" yesterday when he flat out said that a lack of religion in schools led to the horrific shooting deaths of 26 people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut.

"We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?" he said on, yes, Fox News.

He went on, "[W]e've made it a place where we don't want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability -- that we're not just going to have be accountable to the police if they catch us, but one day we stand before, you know, a holy God in judgment… If we don't believe that, then we don't fear that."

Huckabee's argument is a not-so-distant cousin from that of anti-gay, evangelical radio host Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association. He suggested said yesterday that the kids killed didn't have sufficient belief in God: "God is not going to go where he is not wanted."

This is a particularly insidious brand of "blame of the victim" messaging, one that's also particularly confusing: conservatives are known to blame disasters like Hurricane Sandy on the gays, as if our hedonistic, heathen ways unleash doom and destruction, known in right-wing Christian circles as God's Wrath, onto the population at large, even God-fearing citizens. Our mere presence threatens civilization because it's an affront, and those who accept us are asking for it by turning their back on God.

And here we have roughly the same argument being used to explain the deaths of nearly two dozen innocent children who could have no deep understanding of religion, faith or a creator.

You're damned if you do believe, you're damned if you don't, and you're even damned if you're too young to know what "religion" even means - according to Huckabee and his ilk, at least.

Read more: http://www.towleroad.com/2012/12/mike-h ... z2F8IoY2e0


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PostPosted: 12/15/12 9:02 am • # 2 
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Here's Bryan Fisher's comment:

American Family Association spokesman Bryan Fischer had something heinous to say about the tragic school shooting in Connecticut today. He said that God allowed the shooting to happen because prayer, the Bible, and the Ten Commandments are not taught in public schools and "God is a gentleman" who does not go where he is not wanted, Right Wing Watch reports:

Fischer said that God could have protected the victims of this massacre, but didn't because "God is not going to go where he is not wanted" and so if school administrators really want to protect students, they will start every school day with prayer.

Read more: http://www.towleroad.com/2012/12/fische ... z2F8JN8nZ9


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PostPosted: 12/15/12 9:04 am • # 3 
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So Huckabee and Fisher favour the massacre of US children.
Not surprised.


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PostPosted: 12/15/12 9:08 am • # 4 
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The "excuse-makers" are out in full chatter at the "other place".


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PostPosted: 12/15/12 9:13 am • # 5 
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A prayer a day
keeps the killer away?


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PostPosted: 12/15/12 9:16 am • # 6 
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They should've told that to their Jesus. Does the "garden of Gethsemane" ring a bell?

Oh, I forget. That was "God's will".........................They could have prayed and still be just as dead.

I am really getting fucking tired of that phrase!!


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PostPosted: 12/15/12 9:25 am • # 7 
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Their god sucks if s/he takes it out on children.
They might want to consider Allah instead.


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PostPosted: 12/16/12 11:42 am • # 8 
OOOK---I knew eventually the conversation would get around to "Why didn't God prevent this?" and "God is the creator of good and evil" etc. I won't even try to defend Him in this situation--the hypocrites that start spouting in their self-righteousness(ie the Huckabees, Fishers, etc) bring shame to the cause of Christ. These people that say these hurtful horrible things are nothing but Pharisees in their attitudes and as words reveal the heart, evidently in their hearts. This I know: the innocents are in heaven and I doubt they would even want to come back...for every horrible thing that for some reason or another is allowed to happen I thank God for all the thousands of evils that are hindered from happening...and I know that God is aware of every tear shed and will comfort every broken heart...


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PostPosted: 12/16/12 11:51 am • # 9 
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IMO, heaven and hell are right here on earth and are created by we humans and no one else.
The religionists point to their gods and say, "It ain't our fault. It's god's will" while they continue to create hell for all within their power.
Toss their arses in the hells they so strongly favour. We call them jails.


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PostPosted: 12/16/12 12:13 pm • # 10 
I'll meet you on common ground: I do believe some jails/prisons are pretty close to hell on earth...


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PostPosted: 12/16/12 12:33 pm • # 11 
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Those to whom I am referring use the "law and order" argument in the same way they use their alleged "religion" - as weapons to dictate to others.


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PostPosted: 12/16/12 1:39 pm • # 12 
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Quote:
American Family Association spokesman Bryan Fischer had something heinous to say about the tragic school shooting in Connecticut today. He said that God allowed the shooting to happen because prayer, the Bible, and the Ten Commandments are not taught in public schools and "God is a gentleman" who does not go where he is not wanted, Right Wing Watch reports:

Fischer said that God could have protected the victims of this massacre, but didn't because "God is not going to go where he is not wanted" and so if school administrators really want to protect students, they will start every school day with prayer.


Oooohhhhh, what a revelation!!!!!!

I wondered where "God" was when all those silly people were praying with every ounce of desperation, and sincerity for "His" help back in the 1930's and 1940's?

If ever there was an excellent argument made for there being a totally non-responsive, uncaring, indifferent, immature, petty, obnoxious, little smart mouthed deity, OR NO GOD AT ALL, this guy's made it loud and clear.

People like this are screaming "Fire!!!!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire. They are causing casualties in the societies of mankind. And when the military becomes fixated on God as their leader, we get things going just the way they are in the nations that are destroying themselves over "God's (who?) will." They ought to be confined to institutions or the equivalent of leper colonies, off shore islands where they can believe as they choose and let the rest of the people deal with reality.

Nuts.


that is IMO


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PostPosted: 12/16/12 1:48 pm • # 13 
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Nailed it again, jd.


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PostPosted: 12/16/12 2:28 pm • # 14 
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Well, I'm sure a good religious man like Huckabee must be right!

But I just have this little problem .......

You see, prayers haven't been a part of Australian Public school life since I was a boy (and that's a LONG time ago), but so far no massacres .....

Maybe its ony US children who have to pray or something ....


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PostPosted: 12/17/12 9:13 pm • # 15 
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December 17, 2012


Puny God



I've spent approximately six minutes on Facebook in the last 72 hours. Treacly remembrances of things make me crazy, appropriation of other people's pain to make oneself feel important makes me crazier, and in the history of everything there has never been an intelligent discussion of anything on Facebook. It's the butthole of the Internet. I like mine because I like memes and pictures of my friends, but Christ almighty, sometimes I want to set two thirds of it on fire.

In those six minutes I managed to see this about nine times:



Forget arguing the actual point, because there isn't one beyond modern Christianity's eager self-martyrdom reality show. Let's talk about this:

SOMEBODY CAN KEEP YOUR GOD OUT OF SOMEPLACE HE WANTS TO BE?

Really? Your God listens to the Supreme Court? People ON the Supreme Court don't listen to the Supreme Court, but your God obeys them? Your God takes orders from the Freedom From Religion Foundation? Your God listens to that dick who has to inject his lack of belief into every conversation about everything from recipes to road head? Your God is cowed by that? Even other atheists think Richard Dawkins is an asshole, but your God takes one look at an op-ed of his and turns tail and runs?

What kind of pathetic weak-ass God do you worship, anyway? A God who needs national approval to show up in the schoolyard and help out kids who are being bullied and beaten and stabbed and shot? A God who needs an official memo complete with TPS report cover to get His job done that day? A God who respects a lock on the door, a bar on the window, a sign that says go away?

Have you ever read the Scriptures you claim to revere?

That God drew water from the rock, parted the seas, raised the dead from their graves, smashed the cruel and corrupt. That God swept down over the earth and uprooted tyrants, freed slaves, inspired nations, lifted up the widow and the orphan, all before His daily Chipotle run. That God was here for the ones who wanted Him, sure, but He was there for everybody else, too, and certainly wasn't waiting for an engraved invitation to get shit done. His Son declared that He had sheep not of this flock, and that no one, no one at all, would go to the Father except through Him, that He was there for everyone. He didn't ignore the people who rejected Him, wag His finger and cluck that He told them so and they'd be sorry.

He forgave them their rejection and welcomed them to His cosmic party no matter how late they came or how lousy their hostess gifts were. That was the WHOLE FECKING IDEA.

That's the God worthy of worship, not this petulant bastard who whines that He didn't even WANT to be in your stupid school anyway, and if a bunch of kids get shot then GOOD because it proves His point. I don't know who'd want to worship that jackass. I wouldn't sit next to Him on the subway, much less build Him a temple and name Him my king.

A.


Posted by Athenae on December 17, 2012 at 20:27


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PostPosted: 12/18/12 12:50 am • # 16 
This area is so full of the Mike Huckabee mentality it makes me sick!


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PostPosted: 12/18/12 9:06 am • # 17 
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Just out of curiousity, how do Huckabee and the other others using this tragedy to advance their political ajenda differ from those of the gun control/second amendment adherent crowds who are using it to advance theirs? I don't see any of them as being much better than the Westboro Church mob.


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PostPosted: 12/18/12 9:30 am • # 18 
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I see an enormous difference, jim ~ the Huckabee side is pushing their own strict religious priniciples and the other side [which includes me] is pushing for public safety ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 12/18/12 10:40 am • # 19 
And WBC has no horse in this race. They are advocating for hatred and truthfully I think they will get the biggest mileage out of this tragedy. Lots of hate to go around.

The pro-gun people will successfully get more guns on the street because people will think that a gun can protect them from horrendous situations like this. The gun control people will be the big losers. All the gun/killing talk will keep it fresh in people's minds which I think will stimulate more stress and more sales.

There may be a little movement on automatic weapons, but it will be a token only.

I read an article yesterday that NONE of the gun control talk can really start at Obama. That will polarize everyone and sides become intractible. The movement will have to originate with the families of victims like MADD did.

I also would bet the rolls for Prepper Organizations are growing.


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PostPosted: 12/18/12 1:08 pm • # 20 
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Huckabee decided to double-down on his horseshit....( from his FB page...)

I’ve said some controversial things from time to time, but none which prompted such a backlash as when I stated that the horrific shooting in CT of school children and teachers couldn’t be blamed on God because we’ve systematically marginalized God out of our culture by removing Him from all aspects of the public square. The vicious attacks that have resulted, most of all of which are based on total ignorance of what I actually said have actually validated my point, but I’m quite certain that was not the intent of both the professional and amateur critics who have demanded everything from my being banned from ever speaking in public again, or wished me a slow and painful death. On that alone, I wish to acknowledge that the left has again shown that it defines tolerance and diversity as being tolerant only of that with which it agrees, and diverse only to include slight shades of the orthodoxy of liberalism to which they adhere. They abhor censorship of their own profanity, obscenities, or graphic violence, but are the first to demand that a voice that invokes the name of God to be silenced. A specific act of violence is rarely the result of a specific single act of a culture that prompts it. In other words, I would never say that simply taking prayer and Bible reading from our institutions or silencing Christmas carols is the direct cause of a mass murder. That would be ludicrous and simplistic. But the cause and effect we see in the dramatic changes of what our children are capable of is a part of a cultural shift from a God-centered culture to a self-centered culture. We have glorified uninhibited self-expression and individualism and are shocked that we have a generation of loners. We have insisted on a society where everyone gets a trophy and no one loses and act surprised that so many kids lack self-esteem and feel like losers. We dismiss the notion of natural law and the notion that there are moral absolutes and seemed amazed when some kids make it their own morality to kill innocent children. We diminish and even hold in contempt the natural family of a father and mother creating and then responsibly raising the next generation and then express dismay that kids feel no real connection to their families or even the concept of a family. We scoff at the need for mothers and fathers to make it their priority to train their children to be strong in spirit and soul and responsible for right and wrong and exalt instead the virtue of having things and providing expensive toys, games, and electronics that substitute for parenting and then don’t understand why our kids would rather have ear buds dangling from their ears, fingers attaching to a smart phone, and face attached to a computer screen than to have an extended conversation with their family at dinner. And we don’t teach them there is a Creator God who sets immutable rules, a God who is knowable, and to whom we are ultimately responsible. Instead we teach that God was not involved in our origins, that our very lives are biological happenstances and in fact are disposable should they be inconvenient to us, and that any outrageous behaviors are not sin, but disorders for which we should be excused and accommodated. I realize my viewpoint sounds out-dated and archaic, but when that world view was the foundation of our nation’s social contract, we got in trouble at school for talking in class, chewing gum, pulling a girl’s pigtails, or slouching in our school desks. We took guns to school, to be sure, but they were in the gun racks of our trucks and we used them to hunt before and after school. It never occurred to us to use them to murder our teachers and fellow students. So yes, I can stand the contempt and criticism of the left. I’ll gladly accept their scorn as they substitute creative language with a steady stream of profanity-laced tirades that I’m an idiot, a throwback to the past, and a person who should be forever silenced. But when we as a nation feared God, we didn’t fear that a 20 year old with a high powered rifle would gun down our children in their schoolrooms.


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PostPosted: 12/18/12 1:16 pm • # 21 
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Anne Coulter move over.
There's a new frother on the block.


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PostPosted: 12/18/12 7:50 pm • # 22 
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sooz06 wrote:
I see an enormous difference, jim ~ the Huckabee side is pushing their own strict religious priniciples and the other side [which includes me] is pushing for public safety ~

Sooz



Huckabee and his ilk have constantly touted for strict religious principles just as you (and I) have constantly pushed for more gun control. What I object to is pointing at the Newtown tragedy as a reason for advancing those principles. The shooting last Friday would have happened regardless of any gun control just as it would have happened if the kids bowed down and prayed in school five times a day and it's demeaning to the victims to do the old "do as I say and all will be well" stuff with their dead bodies.


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PostPosted: 12/18/12 9:24 pm • # 23 
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jim
If not now, when? It is the time to call for action, not when the horror has faded. It's not about Huckabee and his religious drivel, but about the NRA and their powerful lobby that supports gun manufacturers.
If we wait until the outrage dies down, then it will get pushed to the back of the line by budget worries and other concerns......until it happens again. And it will.

Read gramps post #28 here: viewtopic.php?f=66&t=12249&start=25

This man is ranting against Obama, but it would probably be impossible for him to go after the President. Who will he kill? Will he walk into McDonalds or a mall or his workplace and open fire to vent his rage?

I even think the children who died would want this to be addressed right now, before others die and I think the ONLY way to honor them it to make certain it's more damn difficult for them to do so.

You nor I can be sure it would not have happened if there were stricter gun laws. I do know it would have made if more difficult.


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PostPosted: 12/19/12 9:38 am • # 24 
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Excellent post, roseanne ~ "If not now, when?" ~ the Huckabees/Fischers et al tactics saw a benefit to using the victims to promote their own self-interests, which is demeaning the victims ~ but this cold-blooded massacre galvanized the public to both plead for and demand improved public safety ~ totally different realms for me ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 12/19/12 9:55 am • # 25 
IMO, just like Wayne LaPierre is a pimp for the gun manufacturers, Huckabee is a pimp to the Bible Thumpers and both have followers who are just too ignorant to see how they are being used. NRA members are so set on clinging to their guns they don't even see how they are being used by the NRA.
How do NRA members think Wayne LaLaPierre is able to live in the mansion he lives in, drives the vehicle he does? (Wayne LaPierre receives an annual salary of $970,000, which is pretty good money for a man who runs an organization that is officially a non-profit. ) It's because he's got his members by the balls and they willingly allow him to squeeze! Huckabee is no different. Both are phony!


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