Sorry, but this is another that I thought needed it's own thread.

mac said about all the shootings posted here, "this is a plague". I know that many of us are not seeing the "end of the world" type scenario coming via a financial collapse. Even if the economy fails, I don't think any of us envision some sort of chaotic outbreak of fighting or looting, but many people do.

Could some of these people who are "losing it" be ones that have a great fear of what is to come, especially a young man who is unstable and who's own Mother is actively and aggressively preparing for just such an event?

Regardless of the others, this may well have been what pushed that young man over the edge.

Shooter's mother a survivalist who collected guns

The mother of the gunman who killed 20 children and seven adults in America’s worst school massacre, was a gun-proud “survivalist” preparing for economic collapse, it has emerged.

Nancy Lanza, whose gun collection was raided by her son Adam for Friday’s massacre at Sandy Hook school, was part of the “prepper” movement, which urges readiness for social chaos by hoarding supplies and training with weapons.

“She prepared for the worst,” her sister-in-law Marsha Lanza told reporters.

“Last time we visited her in person, we talked about prepping — are you ready for what could happen down the line, when the economy collapses?”

It also emerged that Nancy Lanza had spoken of her fears less than a week before the attack that she was “losing” her son.

“She said it was getting worse. She was having trouble reaching him,” said a friend who did not want to be named.

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/Sch ... z2FGvmbfck

There's a TV show about the preppers. I kind of watched a few and came to the conclusion that the contestants are beyond nuts. They should be required to wear straight jackets when ever they are in public.

Maybe mac is right and it is a plague!

47 guns found in home of Indiana man arrested for making alleged threat to attack elementary school

Man said he would enter school, "kill as many people as he could"

CEDAR LAKE, Ind. (AP) -- Authorities say an Indiana man who had 47 guns and ammunition in his home has been arrested after allegedly threatening to kill people at an elementary school near his home.

Cedar Lake police were called to the home of 60-year-old Von I. Meyer early Friday after he allegedly threatened to set his wife on fire. A police statement says Meyer also said he would enter Jane Ball Elementary School and "kill as many people as he could."

Authorities found 47 guns and ammunition worth over $100,000.

Prosecutors filed felony intimidation charges against Meyer on Saturday, one day after the massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn. He is being held without bond.

Cedar Lake is about 45 miles southeast of Chicago.

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/found ... z2FH0gzSLO

Why do i think the preppers are the rapturists by a new name? I mean, the psychology seems to be similar.

We are never really going to know what happened here, because the principals are dead.

He was the right age for schizophrenia onset and there is a huge paranoid side that plays into that. She may have been unwittingly playing into his paranoid fantasies with her own fears and prepper stuff. We will NEVER know.

None of this explains why he'd kill the kids. Again, I don't believe we will ever know and if "talking heads" opine on TV, I think it will just be their best guesses.

We can talk all day about mental illnesses, too. It's an inexact science and we'll never catch everyone. There aren't cures, There are only controls. Sometimes. What sets off one person is inocuous to the next.

I think it's fear. I think gun owners and would be gun owners are worried about something like this happening to them or their families so they will cling to their guns or rush out and buy more.

What did Charles Barkley say? "I think, especially in the black culture, I don't know if it's a gun culture, it’s a crime culture. We, as black people, and I always say we, we don’t have respect for each other. You know? We got more black men in prison than we do in college, and crime in our neighborhoods is running rampant," NBA great Charles Barkley said. "I know everybody reacts when something like the Belcher thing happens, but being black, this is something you deal with all the time and it’s just sad. I’m a guy, I carry a gun. I carry a gun."

"I just feel safer with it, and I understand his point," Barkley said to McEnroe. "But for me, it's a personal choice. And like I said, it would take extreme -- obviously, I'm 50 years old and I've had it since I was 21, 22."

I think Barkley's statement reflects fear too.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... safer.html

Terrific observation, greeny ~

Sooz

I mostly agree with Kathy, but I see it as irrational fear that is fueled and bolstered by dishonesty, stereotyping, and varying forms of bigotry ~

Sooz

Don't forget "media hysteria".

Good addition, Sid ~

Sooz

The movement of the "preppers" has been around for a long long time, from the Mormon list of foods that should be saved and stored to list of supplies that families should have packed in case of natural disaster, etc. Different people carry "preparedness" to different extremes. A 'survivalist" manual (which was banned) was the infamous Turner Diaries[i] which spoke of government abuse of power and social upheaval and chaos and methods of [i]surviving The book was extremely racist and favored by such neanderthals as Timothy McVeigh as well as other white supremacists...personally, I found the book offensive, kind of like a Catcher in the Rye manual for survivalists, but I think it should be required reading for all law enforcement personnel,jmo...I believe a prime motivator behind the gun enthusiasts is a mistrust of gov't and fear of society breakdown...one has but to witness the looting that occurs in riots such as Watts to understand this fear...
personally, I choose not to go back to some of those survivalist ideas but rather choose to live peacably and with common sense--and common sense tells me the likelihood of disaster occurring is greater where there are weapons accessible to unstable individuals or immature individuals...and am completely comfortable with stricter gun control.

The Watts riots, and many other riots, are caused by the same mindset as that of the survivalists.
It's a viscious circle jerk.

I'm not sure that the fear is totally "irrational". People we like carry guns. It's not just nameless, faceless psychopaths.

They have past histories with violence or live/work in areas with violent profiles. Their logic says; train, carry a gun and protect myself. To their way of thinking this is common sense and I can't entirely fault that.

I argued with some guy on another board who had his gun in his car while he was playing miniature golf with his family. Thieves broke into the car and took the gun. I told him he was part of the problem. He was furious with me for saying that, but I do believe it.

I also think it ups the ante in the violence cycle. If the thugs of the world think you have a gun, now a knife or a handgun isn't enough. He needs an automatic weapon so he can take out the whole crowd before anyone can respond. So an armed populace means the need for a super-armed criminal element.

And so it goes...

Indeed

Kath, my "irrational" comment was geared to the "preppers" ~ those who have arsenals ~

Sooz

I think sooz is talking about the irrational fear that people like the preppers have.

"The end is near!" "National riots will occur" "There will be war over food and water!".

That sort of fear. Otherwise, why would people like that build bunkers, stockpile food and weapons to protect those things?

I've watched an online documentary about preppers. They are nuts and love to foster that nuttiness on web sites.
Maybe all of them already have some sort of paranoia and the media hype about economic collapse isn't helping.

I think the prepper movement is rooted in fear, control and racism.

Personal Responsibility is code. Is it personal responsibility to first do no harm and keep your stockpile away from the volatile?

Well, yeah.
And you need to get more guns to protect all those guns you've stockpiled.

kathy- have you listened to the McVeigh tapes? if not, i would strongly recommend it. he was not irrationalor insane, imo. what went wrong with him is that he saw the betrayal of the government against people- first in Iraq, then in Waco, and, using the lessons he learned from the military (most importantly "the rules (of war), if not written down, are determined by the aggressor"), he applied this to his hero role as enforcer of justice against perceived aggression.

the interesting thing about this psychology is that it is totally logical and internally consistent. that is actually kinda terrifying. and the logic is utterly amoral, so are certain aspects of our foreign policy and law enforcement. McVeigh was, by all accounts, a really bright guy. and a sensitive one. it is strange to think about where he had to go mentally to arrive at the point where he viewed killing 168 innocent people as a heroic act. this kid may have been no different.

note: i am not excusing any of this. it is wrong. it is evil. it is troubling. all of the above. but it can't be easily dismissed as an act of lunacy.

And then the chain lead to Eric Harris whose motive appears to be to exact more carnage than McVeigh. Eric was totally narcissistic and amoral, too. He actually wanted to schedule the Columbine massacre for April 19, the anniversary of the Kansas City bombings with his devastation being bigger and more deadly. Dylan and Eric carried pipe bombs into the school that failed to detonate, so they went to plan B and just shot people on the school grounds. Dylan was a depressive with a bad temper and maybe if he'd never met Eric he'd be aliive today. I doubt that could be said of Eric. He was cold and methodical.

We don't know ANYTHING about Adam Lanza. Unless he left some journal pieces, we will never.

We kind of strayed from the preppers, sorry!!!!

S'ok.
It's what happens to normal people having conversations.

thanks for tolerating that aside. i have been thinking about what drives this sort of thing. i wish that we, as a nation, would spend a LOT more time thinking about it. i can't imagine a lasting solution that doesn't include some serious introspection.

One of my favorite things about this group is the way threads twist and turn. It's because we are all "thinkers". A free-flow sort of thinking, posting and conversing that I adore. I may not always agree and I may not always be articulate, but I am always amazed at the intelligence (and humor!) that permeates this entire group.

I so agree mac. What better way to honor those sweet children and brave adults (along with all the recent victims of such actions) than to get serious about a solution to this horrible "plague".

Hubby had a dinner meeting tonight with a consultant to his company. He is a gunsalesman on the side.

He was at a gun show this weekend in Pennsylvania. 450K guns were sold at this event.

Oh boy!!!!

Guess I don't get out much. I don't personally know anybody except who's afraid of government to the point they need weapons. I know maybe one or two who might be afraid of home invaders, etc, and keep a weapon at home. I can understand that, but this business of accumulating weaponry to make a heroic stand against rogue government is just goofy. George III is dead. FDR is dead. Barbara Streisand is getting on in years. Relax at little, why don't they?