As you should. I do find it sad, but it is her body until she gives birth.

You can go to a wet town and bring your alcohol back to a dry town. It don't think alcohol is highly regulated at all. People can drink themselves to excess. But, I would be fine with age restrictions (obviously) on drug use.

Fine, it's a first step. What are the positives of this 'first step'?

I have no problem with his 23 points that don't need legislative action, but I do have a problem with a few that do.

Reinstate and strengthen the assault weapons ban.

What is an assault weapon? That needs to be clarified. Any weapon is an assault weapon once it has been used to assault someone.

Restore the 10-round limit on ammunition magazines.

This does nothing other than make the ones already in existence that more expensive. Which in turns creates a criminal element and trafficking from outside.

Give law enforcement additional tools to prevent and prosecute gun crime.


What additional tools do they need to prevent and prosecute gun crime? They don't have the tools to do that now? Or are they talking about pumping monies into law enforcement agencies? How much do they need?

Help ensure that young people get the mental health treatment they need.

Ensure health insurance plans cover mental health benefits.

Protect police by finishing the job of getting rid of armor-piercing bullets.

These 3 are the only ones I see as having a real significant impact on the recent shootings. The other, I see NONE.

If you're always looking for guarantees you must be very disappointed.

Not at all, O. I don't look for guarantees in everything but I do in things that matter. But you're right. I am disappointed in the reactions and attitudes of those that aren't able to debate this intelligently and with respect and come up with real solutions that will make a difference.

I have been questioned, mocked and everything else all over the place because I don't see how the actions I listed will make a difference, but nobody has told me how they will other than you won't be able to shoot as many people without reloading. And that would be correct, HOWEVER, all I have to do is bring a couple of more guns with me or more clips or have purchased the +10 magazines BEFORE they were 'outlawed'. So it solves NOTHING.

Can't see where you've been mocked here.
Thing of it is that it isn't the guns by themselves but the culture surrounding guns and violence and until that culture gets changed then the immediate is to at least limit the damage.

But nothing that has been suggested will limit the damage. Nobody has been able to say exactly what the new regs would do to actually limit the damage.

monster, I'm thinking that might not be answerable until we try ~ there is VERY strong and still growing public support ~ if policies need to be adjusted based in experience after legislated, that's easier and quicker to do than beginning the legislation process from scratch ~

Sooz

That just doesn't make sense to me, sooz. We are right back to doing the same ole same ole. Doing something for the sake of doing something without any real viable expectations of success.

So tell me then.
Which is more deadly in terms of the number of victims?
A whacko with an automatic weapon, a whacko with a single shot rifle?

I found this interesting



9. States with stricter gun control laws have fewer deaths from gun-related violence.

Last year, economist Richard Florida dove deep into the correlations between gun deaths and other kinds of social indicators. Some of what he found was, perhaps, unexpected: Higher populations, more stress, more immigrants, and more mental illness were not correlated with more deaths from gun violence. But one thing he found was, perhaps, perfectly predictable: States with tighter gun control laws appear to have fewer gun-related deaths. The disclaimer here is that correlation is not causation. But correlations can be suggestive:

“The map overlays the map of firearm deaths above with gun control restrictions by state,” explains Florida. “It highlights states which have one of three gun control restrictions in place – assault weapons’ bans, trigger locks, or safe storage requirements. Firearm deaths are significantly lower in states with stricter gun control legislation. Though the sample sizes are small, we find substantial negative correlations between firearm deaths and states that ban assault weapons (-.45), require trigger locks (-.42), and mandate safe storage requirements for guns (-.48).”

The rest of this article is interesting, too.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... ed-states/

A whacko with an automatic weapon.

Which is more deadly in terms of the number of victims?
A whacko with a single shot rifle, a whacko with a sling shot?


Which is more deadly in terms of the number of victims?
A whacko with a sling shot,a whacko with a car?

Which is more deadly in terms of the number of victims....

See where I'm going with this?

I would hope the net effect of these measures will be to begin to reverse the casual, free and easy attitude we have about guns in this country, as if they were a cool tool, with the emphasis on cool. So many people man up with weapons like they're walking around in a TV cop show, eventually their environment becomes that dangerous. Americans in my lifetime have been sold fear and sold guns to help them deal with it, and now guns are thick on the ground, and we're all rushing out to buy more guns because there's so many damn guns to worry about, and we worry about who's got 'em. Turns out some of them are crazy, or might be soon. And of course criminals are apparently born with guns.

We are being sold to, very effectively, by the gun industry, have been for a long time. It's time they had competition, pushback. I hope these current efforts by Obama and others start to do that.

who do you call for fetal alcohol syndrome?

Nowhere.
It's a red herring.

i think assault weapons have a narrower definition than you state above, monster.

it is not simply the case that they are used for assault. it goes to INTENDED USE. you can use a HAMMER for assault, as well. that doesn't make it an assault weapon (unless you are talking to the TSA). a single shot rifle is used for hunting game. a handgun is used both for target shooting, defense, and for assault- but i don't think anyone other than SciFi is talking about banning handguns. a military style rifle, with magazine capacity of over 7 rounds, and rapid fire capability is not going to be used for target OR hunting. it is pretty stupid to use that kind of a weapon for game or for target shooting. but it is excellent for mowing down entire rooms full of people.

But those aren't the characteristics they are using to determine if a weapon is an "assault weapon". Many of the features ares cosmetic.

Well, I'm talking about banning handguns. The great majority of firearm related homicides in the US involve handguns - at least 70% - and until that fact is faced then you are never really going to solve much at all.

But I'm lucky, I live in a country where handguns are effectively banned. Although apparently, if you have the right connections and a spare $5000 or so you can get yourself a Glock. But, of course, if you are caught with it you can get up to 10 years in jail.

Trying to minimise murders and trying to minimise mass murders might also require different approaches.

And your's wasn't?

EXACTLY. What WAS determined to be an assault weapon were fully automatic machine guns. Not a weapon that 'looks' evil or can shoot more than 7 shots without reloading.

cattleman- it might be interesting to some here if you explain where the latest round of gun control came from (the Tasmanian incident) and how it has gone for you in terms of curbing violence.

I don't mind limiting certain kinds of weapons, if it is done logically and not emotionally based on how a weapons looks.

Banning magazines will harm me monetarily and I somewhat okay with doing that. I think it is a feel good measure, though. I can change my magazine in only a couple seconds. The V Tech shooter had 10 and 15 round magazines and was able to shoot 160 rounds.