I don't see how any of these 'laws' would have prevented the tragedies that took place.

There is somewhere in the vicinity of 9,500 firearm related homicides in the US every year.
They are all tragedies.

I really don't know Sooz. I wish I did. There are so many guns out there right now, I can't think of a single law that could have prevented what took place in Conn and at the other places. If someone is hell bent on doing harm, they are going to find a way to do it. These last incidents, the perps chose guns. Next time it could be someone filling their car full of gas cans and driving onto a school during recess and set it off. It could be someone strapping explosives to their bodies and walking into a school at the beginning of the day when the kids are being dropped off. I refuse to accept the lives of those innocents that were loss. It was nothing short of a tragedy. But I think we don't need to take knee jerk actions and really think about it. Get the folks that take care of mentally ill people into the converstation. Every single person that has committed these acts have had mental issues and guns were made available to them. Either intentionally or not.

As for the stand your ground law, those have to be cleaned up. Too many folks have tried to use that law to justify their killing of another person. I do, however, agree with the castle doctrine. If someone enters my home uninvited, I should be able to take any measure I see fit to insure the saftey of my family and myself. I recently saw a movie called "The Felon". It was about a couple that woke up to someone in their home. They got to their son to make sure he was okay and the father got a baseball bat and went to check. He was attacked by the intruder and knocked down. He got up and chased the intruder out of his home. The intruder was reaching into his wasteband to get what the homeowner thought was a gun, so he swung the bat at him. Cracked his head wide open and died. The homeowner was arrested, tried and convicted. I would imagine in that situation, the adrenaline would be pumping and survival instincts kick in. If he'd have had a gun, he probably would have shot the guy.

So, I don't know what the answer is, but taking guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens isn't the answer.

I don't think anyone knows any certain/guaranteed solutions.
But should that stop us from trying?
Until such time as this culture of violence is reversed we need to find ways to reduce the carnage... or sit around and watch it happen while wringing our hands.


but taking guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens isn't the answer.

And where did you get that myth from? the NRA?

I agree. Sitting around wringing our hands won't solve anything. But doing knee jerk moves won't either. So far we have only really heard extreme measures that really won't have any benefit. You can outlaw large 'clips and magazines', but that just drives them underground and you create a black market and more of a criminal element.

It's no myth, oskar. How does taking the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens that aren't nutcases going to make a difference?

If Momma Lanza didn't have a bushmaster (or large clip and magazine) maybe a few less kids would have been mowed down.

Adam Lanza was a law abiding citizen until the moment he wasn't!!!!

Really? What were those kids going to do, bumb rush him? Say Lanza's mom didn't have any guns at all? The guy that did the shootings in Oregon didn't have any guns of his own either. He didn't get them from his mom. He stole them. I am all for something real that will have an effect but what has been suggested so far, just isn't real.

It sounds to me that you are making excuses to making America a "free range". What is your opposition to banning mega weapons?

Nothing will be fool proof or perfect. I don't understand why anyone needs an assault weapon meant for the military. It ups the ante in my pov. Guns are a street commodity. I don't have money to pay for my heroin, meth, coke so I'll pay with my bushmaster. Also what's wrong with registering the guns?

It may sound to you any way you choose. I have no control over that. And I am not making excuses to making the US a 'free range'. What do YOU consider a mega weapon? How to YOU propose to ban them? What about all the 'mega weapons' that are already out there?

There is a difference between need and want. What is an 'assault' weapon? An AR or AK is not an 'assault weapon' until someone ASSAULTS someone with it. If you consider guns a street commodity, what do you think will happen when you 'ban' them? Do you think the criminals are going to turn theirs in? How are you going to get them out of the hands of criminals? I have no problem with the govt making folks register guns. But explain to me how you are going to get folks to register their weapons that they already have? I have a few that aren't registered and I never will register them. It's nobody's business what kind of weapons I have.

I don't know guns well enough to define assault weapons and large clips. What are the AR and AK's designed for? I looked in wikipedia and AK-47 was defined as an assault rifle.

I am curious, why don't you want to register your guns? We register our cars. Why not guns?

I think guns are a street commodity, sure. I don't think we will get them out of the hands of criminals easily, but I would think that slowing the flow into the hands of criminals is a positive change.

I don't think anyone is advocating confiscating everyone's weapons so I think there are knee jerks on both sides of the issue.

Mental health care will not solve a lot of these issues. I'd love to say it will and improving access is a positive thing, but Adam Lanza had everything going for him. He was affluent and in CT. He could have had adequate mental health care, but he did not access it. Stigmatizing mental illness will have the opposite effect actually. People will not go for treatment if they are lumped in with the serial killers. It's not an easy issue.

It doesn't really matter what it was designed for. A humvee was designed for the military but now you can get a version of it for personal use. A lot of what was designed for the military is now in public use. And again, an assault rifle is only such when it is used to assault.

I don't want to register my guns because it's none of the govts business what kind of weapons I have. I purchased them legally or they were given to me by my father, a retired veteran.

How do you think we can slow he flow of guns into criminal hands? Again, the only ones that are going to follow the laws are law abiding citizens. Take their guns away and they are easy prey for criminals.

While I believe there are a lot of gun grabbers out there that are all for confiscating everyone's weapons, but it's not a reality.

I think mental health IS a huge issue. Everyone that has committed these deadly acts have all had histories of mental illness. One would have to have some sort of mental illness to commit the acts they committed.

The one thing we do completely agree on....It's not an easy issue!

Anybody who can't hit an intended target with 3 shots shouldn't have a gun.

And WHO gets to decide that?

Look, I am all for doing something but whatever is done has to be done within the confines of the Constitution. If ANYONE has a real solution, I'm all for it.

Magic bullet or nothing?

For example, instead of 10 shots/clip it's 5 shots/clip and instead of 25 dead we get 22 dead because of the extra few seconds that give the opportunity to get away.

Sounds good.
A muzzleloader, 50 pellets and a small bag of black powder for every household!

It's no myth, oskar. How does taking the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens that aren't nutcases going to make a difference?

Please show me one legislator and one sponsor who are proposing a complete gun ban.

I strongly believe that responsible gun owners should have a seat at the table during this national debate ~ but here's where it gets tricky for me ~ I don't see it as responsible if responsible gun owners refuse to register their guns ~

Sooz

Need to get the lies out of the way and the first one is that there is some sort of nationwide confiscation of firearms in the works.
Next time the NRA drags that one out they need to be confronted and called liars to their face.

Again, the only ones that are going to follow the laws are law abiding citizens. (Monster)

Precisely what I was going to say...

Law abiding decent people don't comprehend the black market and the criminal element and the money flowing in this market...you could write law after law stating one can only own 2 bullets and a .22 calibre pistol and it wouldn't do anything but increase the profits of the black market.

Here's a scarey thought: How many homes that one's kids frequent have guns secured/unsecured present? IMO, and its jmo, there is no such thing as a "secured" gun in the presence of kids.

We (Canada) have a black market here just like the US yet we have far stricter gun laws and nowhere the carnage caused by guns.

Aww, perhaps your LE doesn't support your black market?

Depends on what an LE is.

I think law abiding people know that their gun is a commodity and has a black market sales value. Law abiding people are neither naive nor stupid.

cannalee - Gramps was talking about gun ownership in his neighborhood the other night. Many neighbors had hunting guns and guns to shoot at cans, etc. It was never a problem until one of the neighbor's sons used it to commit suicide.

JMO, If a gun is secured well, the bushmaster crowd would have blown you away before you unsecured it. They have the element of surprise on their side.

That said I still do not know why law abiding citizens have trouble registering their guns. I don't see a difference in registering a car. Is it the fear of gun confiscation? Please explain.

Kathy, I didn't mean to imply that law abiding people were naive or stupid re the black market, only that they don't think like a criminal. Make something illegal and the criminal immediately sees $$$ to be made.

Besides fear of gov't confiscation, there is another possible reason for one being against gun registration: I call it the "hidden diamonds" scenario. Sooz might correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me there were some Jews who gained freedom from the horrors of halocaust Germany with well placed bribes of diamonds. A registered gun cannot be sold (or traded) tax free without a lot of paperwork and bother--the guns are IOWs an investment, which any gun owner knows he can divest himself of all or part of his guns (unregistered) as he sees fit. Gun registration would put an end to this relatively easy business.

No one has mentioned gun confiscation other than the mythology created by the NRA and their acolytes.

cannalee - Isn't that just more proof of gun as a street commodity?

Here is a very interesting tale of how an AR-15 was used as a "hidden diamond" without all that nasty paperwork.

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/article/ ... legal-guns

The gun made its way into the hands of Wolfpack members when James Thompson Jr. swapped the AR-15 for $100 and an eight-ball -- cocaine packed into one-eighth ounces for sale.

Thompson bought the AR-15 from a Batavia, N.Y., store for $1,300 in 2005.