The part of the quote I emphasized is the way i think it should be, with perhaps a caveat: part of the Christian value system is indeed a desire, or constraint if you will, to share Jesus but sometimes this is done in such an obnoxious pushy manner that it becomes offensive, rather than Christ-like. Jesus didn't seek the multitudes of people that followed Him, they sought after and followed Him of their own volition...A Christian should so lead their life that people come to them, wanting to know more about Jesus. Unfortunately, people are not perfect, and non-believers, seeing the flaws and imperfections (and sin?) in the lives of Christians, dub the Christians hypocrites, not understanding the wonderful doctrines of the Cross that the Christians, for all their imperfections, do believe in. For this reason Christians are admonished to walk in good works, so that others might see the faith in their works...the works don't save them, but are supposed to be a testimony to the faith which does save them.

My biggest complaint with the Church is that it seems like it's always teaching and preaching to the Christians, while the world of non-believers really don't get to hear the message of peace that Christ wants every man to hear. The message of peace? God's not mad at ya.

Cannalee, do you really not see how much bs that is to someone like me? Why would I need Jesus to teach me about peace? I understand peace. Of course, the church teaches to Christians. Why would they teach to people who know the Bible is bullshit? "Peace" founded on the idea that a good man had to die to appease his father is not a peaceful religion. A religion based on an all powerful god who allows children to suffer for the acts of adults is not a peaceful religion. etc etc.

while the world of non-believers really don't get to hear the message

I hear more than enough, thank you. There's a constant cacophany of christianity in this country, I'd have to literally live under a rock to not be perpetually subjected to it.

Lol Chaos! yes, i can completely understand where a non-believer would view the Gospel as so much bs, especially when there are so many versions of it! There are so many charlatans, Bakers, etc. out there that I really don't blame non-believers for totalling rejecting Christianity....

i accept your right to not believe. That is what Jesus would do. I am really going to try hard to shut my trap since I think by now everyone knows that my silence is not necessarily acquiescence....but I do reserve the right to share if I'm ever asked

Cannalee, you're beliefs are never a bother to me. While I may not share them from a religious point of view there are many moral similarities.

You're no WoolyMammoth... er... WoolenNorma.

Ditto!

We do share a lot of the same ideas, morals, etc. I think the thing that gets me going is the idea that the good morals must come from the Bible. Two people coming from different directions can end up at the same place.

Cannalee, I agree with Chaos in rejecting all organized religions. Since you are a Christian, discussion with you is about the Christian beliefs. I've said it before that I respect you because you are willing to discuss your vews and answer questions. I will always respect that.

Thank you all! in defense of Norma, my sister in Christ: she is much better educated than I and tries with much endurance and patience to explain the Christian pov...I believe out of love.

But we all come from different backgrounds. I went through my own phase of "anger with God"--believe it or not it was when I entered nursing...

I sat there in church and as the people sang and praised God for blessings, i sat there thinking about my patients and some of the horrors they were going through...hospitals back then were not as fancy as now, and a lot of the rooms weren't air conditioned, there would be one RN for 30 pts, etc. and aides did dressing changes, treatments, etc. It was awful...

I got up and left the church in the middle of the service, angry with God, angry with the insulated church, the ignorant people...It was decades before I went to a church again: but God is good, and His mercies endure forever...and His patience.

Like Grumpyauntjeanne, I have asked a lot of questions about the OT...it's been a long journey, and still travelling...