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 Offline John59
PostPosted: 07/03/13 3:08 pm • # 26 
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mpicky wrote:
I agree. I do not think he is telling the truth. But the law does not require one to sustain grievous or life threatening injuries to claim self defense.



Yes, but I would think one has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his life was in danger.
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the monster
PostPosted: 07/03/13 5:32 pm • # 27 
jimwilliam wrote:
SciFiGuy wrote:
Dee wrote:

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Zimmerman should have never approached nor followed Trayvon as he was not acting in the capacity of a law official.

I agree. But that doesn't mean he is guilty of murder.

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A home owners watch program doesn't equal having a right to shoot a person under any circumstances.

Not so. A person has the right to shoot a person in self-defense.

Mpicky wrote:
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Legally, if you start the confrontation, you cannot claim self defense, so in your scenario SciFi, that would be guilty.

Not so. If you go to up someone and start arguing with them, and they pull out a gun and start shooting at you, is it your contention that you cannot shoot them in self-defense?

If that is your contention, you would be wrong.

Folks, just because someone confronts another doesn't mean that they cannot shoot someone in self-defense. Someone might confront another expecting only that the other person will turn and leave, or at the most argue back. They might not expect things to get so out of hand that they begin fighting for their lives.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I do not believe that Zimmerman approached Martin with the intention of killing him. I think he approached Martin only with the intention of causing (what Zimmerman believed was) a hoodlum to leave the grounds. But things got out of hand. A fist-fight ensued. During the scuffle, Zimmerman's gun was exposed. Zimmerman believed that Martin was about to grab that gun and shoot Zimmerman. So fearing for his life, Zimmerman shot Martin first.

That is what happened.

And that is self-defense.



So, if I go into a liquor store, produce a gun and strongly suggest the owner open the till and that owner, instead, produces a gun and I shoot him I should get off because I thought the owner might shoot me. It would be self defense?

Like most gun owners, Zimmerman thought packing a weapon gave him a bigger dick. And, like most gun owners, who are generally cowards at heart, the best he could do is shoot an unarmed person. Had Trayvon had a gun as well, my guess is that Zimmerman would have left a great big puddle in the street and Trayvon would have had two guns.



Sorry, but that's a crock of bovine excrement!


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Dee
PostPosted: 07/04/13 7:51 am • # 28 
I have been watching this trial every day. I still think Zimmerman is guilty of murder and I don't think he shows nor feels any remorse for killing that young man. The Hannity interview showed me what a cold hearted person he is. He would kill again, IMO.
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 Offline sooz06
PostPosted: 07/04/13 8:19 am • # 29 
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I think he's guilty too, Dee ~ the question for me is the appropriate charge ~ I believe he was charged with 2d degree murder, but "intent" is usually a qualifier in a murder charge and that's a fairly high hurdle ~ I'm with MP and mac that manslaughter seems more likely, especially now that the very damning "inconsistencies" in Zimmerman's story are being exposed ~ in addition to the doc who testified there was no evidence of Zimmerman's head being slammed against the pavement repeatedly, I read this morning that another expert testified there were no Martin prints or DNA on Zimmerman's gun ~

Sooz
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 Offline oskar576
PostPosted: 07/04/13 8:23 am • # 30 
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Hopefully the verdict will be based on evidence and not on emotions/beliefs/perceptions. Far too many are in jail based on emotional/biased verdicts.
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Dee
PostPosted: 07/04/13 8:25 am • # 31 
What the Hannity interview showed me was what a cold hearted person Zimmerman is and I think that's the real Zimmerman. He may not get charged with murder but I hope this jury has enough sense to charge him with the death of this young man who was doing nothing wrong.
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mpicky
PostPosted: 07/05/13 7:43 am • # 32 
John59 wrote:
mpicky wrote:
I agree. I do not think he is telling the truth. But the law does not require one to sustain grievous or life threatening injuries to claim self defense.



Yes, but I would think one has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his life was in danger.



The defense does not have to prove anything. The burden is on the state. If the state can't prove their case, he walks no matter what he proves or doesn't prove.
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 Offline macroscopic
PostPosted: 07/05/13 12:41 pm • # 33 
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mpicky wrote:
John59 wrote:
mpicky wrote:
I agree. I do not think he is telling the truth. But the law does not require one to sustain grievous or life threatening injuries to claim self defense.



Yes, but I would think one has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his life was in danger.



The defense does not have to prove anything. The burden is on the state. If the state can't prove their case, he walks no matter what he proves or doesn't prove.


i am not sure that is true for self defense cases. i think the defendant has to show he was defending himself.
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Cannalee2
PostPosted: 07/06/13 7:47 am • # 34 
IMO this case was prosecuted solely because of the racial tensions/connotations it projects and had it been two white men the case would never have been brought to court...this is not to say that I think Zimmerman is innocent but just that there doesn't appear to be enough evidence to prosecute properly.

i think Zimmerman will walk from the murder charge--I don't know about manslaughter...i don't like "compromise" verdicts and think the jury should consider only the charges Zimmerman is facing. They either acquit on murder charges or convict on murder charges.

If Zimmerman walks, I think the case will end up in civil action with Trayvon's family prevailing.
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the monster
PostPosted: 07/06/13 8:55 am • # 35 
I don't think a manslaughter charge would be a compromise verdict. Judges often instruct the jury they may consider a lesser charge in their deliberations. I thought the 2nd degree murder charge was over reaching. But I do believe, because Z was the one that initiated the entire episode that resulted in a person's death. Anybody that says they forgot they had their gun on them is a LIAR! Anyone who, after shooting him, lays his arms out had to know he was dead. Z is a liar with no credibility. He has a history of violence, charges for domestic violence, 2 arrests for obstruction of justice with and without force. All 3 charges were dismissed. Most likely because his daddy was a judge. This guy should NEVER have been allowed to carry a weapon.

I also believe even if it had been 2 white men involved, charges would have or at least should have been brought against whoever pulled the trigger. This was a senseless death and someone other than the victim should be paying a price.
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 Offline macroscopic
PostPosted: 07/06/13 11:04 am • # 36 
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i'm with monster on this one.
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 Offline jabra2
PostPosted: 07/06/13 11:07 am • # 37 
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All I hope for is that the final outcome puts a damper on the "stand your ground" guys and I can leave my house without risk to my life.
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mpicky
PostPosted: 07/08/13 8:21 am • # 38 
the monster wrote:
I don't think a manslaughter charge would be a compromise verdict. Judges often instruct the jury they may consider a lesser charge in their deliberations. I thought the 2nd degree murder charge was over reaching. But I do believe, because Z was the one that initiated the entire episode that resulted in a person's death. Anybody that says they forgot they had their gun on them is a LIAR! Anyone who, after shooting him, lays his arms out had to know he was dead. Z is a liar with no credibility. He has a history of violence, charges for domestic violence, 2 arrests for obstruction of justice with and without force. All 3 charges were dismissed. Most likely because his daddy was a judge. This guy should NEVER have been allowed to carry a weapon.

I also believe even if it had been 2 white men involved, charges would have or at least should have been brought against whoever pulled the trigger. This was a senseless death and someone other than the victim should be paying a price.


I agree. I don't think it was murder anyway. No intent.

Z says he was screaming for help. After he shot Martin, he thought he was still a threat, so he got on top of him to restrain him. Why did he stop screaming for help then? Screams stopped immediately with the fired gun.
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 Offline roseanne
PostPosted: 07/08/13 8:44 am • # 39 
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That would depend on who was screaming..........
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mpicky
PostPosted: 07/08/13 9:20 am • # 40 
roseanne wrote:
That would depend on who was screaming..........



That is what is in question. Today the defense is putting up everyone that ever knew Z and they are testifying the screaming is Z.
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 Offline roseanne
PostPosted: 07/08/13 9:37 am • # 41 
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That's so very strange. I doubt I would recognize anyone's scream unless I had heard them scream a lot.

Could they do a sort of voice analysis? Maybe have Z scream several times, record it and compare the two? Of course the people who know him are going to say it's him. :eyes
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 Offline sooz06
PostPosted: 07/08/13 9:48 am • # 42 
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I read that Trayvon's mother testified the screaming was Trayvon ~ and that George's mother testified the screaming was George ~ :g

Sooz
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mpicky
PostPosted: 07/08/13 10:16 am • # 43 
sooz06 wrote:
I read that Trayvon's mother testified the screaming was Trayvon ~ and that George's mother testified the screaming was George ~ :g

Sooz


That is true.

Voice analysis was thrown out because there was not enough audio and voice under duress is hard to recreate.
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 Offline macroscopic
PostPosted: 07/08/13 11:49 am • # 44 
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mpicky wrote:
sooz06 wrote:
I read that Trayvon's mother testified the screaming was Trayvon ~ and that George's mother testified the screaming was George ~ :g

Sooz


That is true.

Voice analysis was thrown out because there was not enough audio and voice under duress is hard to recreate.


interesting.
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Dee
PostPosted: 07/09/13 12:04 am • # 45 
I was shocked today when I was watching the trial. All the people testifying on Zimmerman's behalf stated they positively knew that was Zimmerman screaming for help on that tape. What a line of BS. I never believed any of them but especially the last two. A ex-medic in the military said he was tuned to knowing whose voice was screaming while in the war. This same man has donated over $17,000 to his defense fund. A lady said there was no doubt she knew it was Zimmerman's screaming. You could tell by her testimony she'd been told practicing what she said.
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mpicky
PostPosted: 07/09/13 7:21 am • # 46 
The Judge decided yesterday to allow the evidence that Martin had a small amount of THC in his blood be allowed in.
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 Offline jimwilliam
PostPosted: 07/09/13 9:15 am • # 47 
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mpicky wrote:
The Judge decided yesterday to allow the evidence that Martin had a small amount of THC in his blood be allowed in.


So what? If anything it will show that Trayvon wasn't the drug crazed wild man Zimmerman has tried to paint him.

This trial is a waste of time in any event. White guys just don't get put in jail for killing black guys. It's always the black guy's fault.
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mpicky
PostPosted: 07/09/13 9:48 am • # 48 
I think it will have a negative impact on the prosecution. In the eyes of 6 middle aged white women? MJ=BAD. Martin was bad, thus he was doing bad things, thus Zimmerman was right to follow him, thus Martin did something bad to him.
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 Offline macroscopic
PostPosted: 07/11/13 10:24 pm • # 49 
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mpicky wrote:
I think it will have a negative impact on the prosecution. In the eyes of 6 middle aged white women? MJ=BAD. Martin was bad, thus he was doing bad things, thus Zimmerman was right to follow him, thus Martin did something bad to him.


the only think that SHOULD matter is the conduct of Zimmerman. he was the adult in the room.
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Dee
PostPosted: 07/12/13 3:25 am • # 50 
I give much credit to the judge in not allow the defense to run this trial. The bottom line is Zimmerman should have never got out of his truck and Martin would still be alive today.
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