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I, am member of the jury, find the defendant, George Zimmerman, ...
Guilty 64%  64%  [ 7 ]
Not Guilty 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
Cannot Decide [this choice creates hung jury and mistrial] 9%  9%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 11
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PostPosted: 07/13/13 8:48 pm • # 26 
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No person or jury can ever convince me that Zimmerman didn't WANT to shoot that kid.


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PostPosted: 07/13/13 9:06 pm • # 27 
Chaos333 wrote:
No person or jury can ever convince me that Zimmerman didn't WANT to shoot that kid.

Really?! You believe that Zimmerman wanted to kill a perfect stranger?! I don't believe you believe that!

If that were the case, why didn't Zimmerman just shoot him while standing up? What was all that business about their fighting and rolling around on the sidewalk and bashing each other's skulls in all about?!


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PostPosted: 07/13/13 9:13 pm • # 28 
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Quote:
You believe that Zimmerman wanted to kill a perfect stranger?!


Not a perfect stranger. One of "those assholes who always get away with it". That's what he killed.


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PostPosted: 07/13/13 9:26 pm • # 29 

Again, then why didn't Zimmerman just shoot Martin from afar? Why get into a bloody fight fight with him, and then shoot him?

No one is happy that a 17-year-old kid was shot to death. But we have to ask, "Why was he shot to death?" The defendant says it was in self-defense, and the prosecution did not prove otherwise. I have a reasonable doubt about what happened, and our laws say that when you have a reasonable doubt, you have to give the benefit of the doubt to the defendant. Our laws say that it is better to let a guilty man go free than to send an innocent man to prison.


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PostPosted: 07/13/13 9:40 pm • # 30 
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SciFi, I have known men like Zimmerman all of my life. I've seen men pick a fight, just to fight. They are violent, angry men like Zimmerman, as his past indicates.

IMO, The reason he didn't shoot him from afar is because he was spoiling for a confrontation. He wanted to feel like a big man and the only way to do that was to demonstrate his dominance up close and personal. That is why he followed him. He was out to prove himself.


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PostPosted: 07/13/13 9:52 pm • # 31 
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One additional thought: Perhaps Zimmerman wanted to create a "stand your ground" scenario. ;) If he had been patrolling that neighborhood for a while, he may have even seen Trayvon before and had him in his sites. We'll never know what was in his mind for sure, but I can see that as a real possibility.


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PostPosted: 07/13/13 11:54 pm • # 32 
This is a sad day/night for our country and especially for the State of Florida. What this jury has now done is give an open season to all the George Zimmerman's out there. This literally makes me sick.


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 12:30 am • # 33 
I wish they had offered up negligent homicide as a choice for the jury. The prosecution didn't prove he intended to kill Trayvon. They did prove that because of his stupid actions including ignoring the dispatcher's order to stop following him, Trayvon is dead.


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 7:48 am • # 34 
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My only disagreement with Josh Marshall's comments is that for me it goes well beyond "hard" and settles on IMPOSSIBLE "... for me to see it as a just outcome if there’s no criminal culpability whatsoever" ~ and to make matters even worse, apparently the defense team is going to ask for GZ to be granted immunity from civil actions ~ :angry ~ Sooz

TPM Editor’s Blog
Quick Thoughts
Josh Marshall- July 13, 2013, 10:16 PM

I’m not surprised the jury didn’t convict Zimmerman of 2nd Degree Murder. I am surprised it doesn’t qualify as manslaughter. The law in Florida has some peculiarities which heavily favored Zimmerman. But this was a situation he created through actions that I don’t think anyone can credibly argue weren’t reckless and showing extremely poor judgment. If a kid who was literally minding his own business ends up dead as the result, it’s hard for me to see it as a just outcome if there’s no criminal culpability whatsoever.

http://editors.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2013/07/quick_thoughts.php?ref=fpblg


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 8:01 am • # 35 
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One of the things that has bothered me a LOT about this case is that I have not read or heard one word of remorse from GZ ~ not a single word ~ which I'm guessing is exactly why the defense didn't want him to testify in his own behalf ~ :angry :angry :angry ~ Sooz

TPM Editor’s Blog
How Much Is About Florida Law?
Josh Marshall- July 14, 2013, 9:29 AM

TPM Reader DD writes in from Wisconsin. Going on the below, I’d be curious to hear from lawyers in other jurisdictions how distinct Florida law seems from how a case with a similar set of facts would have been adjudicated in their jurisdictions …

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I’m a criminal defense lawyer in Wisconsin, but I’ll tell you my reaction to the Zimmerman verdict today. I’ve had friends in Florida asking for my take. I haven’t watched the trial very closely (it seems like an ordinary criminal case to me in many respects). But I was astounded that the defense would put on a “self-defense” argument without the defendant testifying. In most civilized jurisdictions, the burden is on the defense to prove, at least more likely than not, that the law breaking was done for reasons of self-defense. I couldn’t figure out how they could do this without the defendant’s testimony.

I got curious and read the jury instructions Friday night and, I was wrong. In Florida, if self-defense is even suggested, it’s the states obligation to prove it’s absence beyond a reasonable doubt(!). That’s crazy. But ‘not guilty’ was certainly a reasonable result in this case. As I told in friend in Tampa today though, if you’re ever in a heated argument with anyone, and you’re pretty sure there aren’t any witnesses, it’s always best to kill the other person. They can’t testify, you don’t have to testify, no one else has any idea what happened; how can the state ever prove beyond a doubt is wasn’t self-defense? Holy crap! What kind of system is that?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2013/07/how_much_is_about_florida_law.php


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 9:26 am • # 36 
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SciFiGuy wrote:
Chaos333 wrote:
No person or jury can ever convince me that Zimmerman didn't WANT to shoot that kid.

Really?! You believe that Zimmerman wanted to kill a perfect stranger?! I don't believe you believe that!

If that were the case, why didn't Zimmerman just shoot him while standing up? What was all that business about their fighting and rolling around on the sidewalk and bashing each other's skulls in all about?!


I wasn't there, I'm not a witness. But my gut tells me that Zimmerman *got out of his car with his gun drawn* fully intending to create a confrontation, and it was Martin who was acting in self-defense.


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 9:43 am • # 37 
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Those are my "feelings" about it as well but "feelings" don't meet the standard of evidence required.
You can be sure that I will do everything I can to dissuade any Canadians from visiting Florida. It has become far too dangerous for sane folks. They'd probably have a better chance of surviving a vacation in Mexico where, at least, murder is still illegal.


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 9:47 am • # 38 
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A couple of twitter zingers:

"Zimmerman innocent? I"m gonna party like it's 1899"

"We'll have to remember to set our clocks back 50 years when we go to bed tonight"


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 9:48 am • # 39 
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Only 50?


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 9:55 am • # 40 
When hubby and I lived in Homestead, Fl back in the 60's, we had a vehicle stolen right from our driveway. I was furious and made the statement to the police when they came that "I could just kill the person who did this". The policeman's reply to me was " if you plan to shoot someone, make sure you shoot to kill so they can't testify against you." I have never forgotten those words.


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 11:22 am • # 41 
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America should be hanging it's head in shame today. :drfl


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 11:23 am • # 42 
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Should be interesting to watch as blacks, gays, other minorities, gang bangers, etc. wait until there are no witnesses when they "stand their ground" against Tea Partiers.


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 11:30 am • # 43 
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oskar576 wrote:
Should be interesting to watch as blacks, gays, other minorities, gang bangers, etc. wait until there are no witnesses when they "stand their ground" against Tea Partiers.



They would be convicted. Tea Partiers are white.


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 11:34 am • # 44 
I am devastated. I puked when I heard it. I have not stopped crying. This says so much to us as mothers of young black men. I know I am not crazy because I have seen so many people speak my thoughts today. My black son is suspect. My black son is dangerous. My black son is considered deadly, just because he is black. His blackness is considered a disparity of force.

And, another thought that mirrors mine. The trial was over before it started. We expected justice from 6 women who would have clutched their purses if Trayvon walked by.


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 11:47 am • # 45 
This sums it up pretty well

http://gawker.com/the-zimmerman-jury-to ... -770650992


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 2:27 pm • # 46 
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mpicky wrote:



Yup, don't be a black male in Florida.


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 3:02 pm • # 47 
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I'm throwing my son's hoodies in the trash.


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 3:04 pm • # 48 
mpicky wrote:
I am devastated. I puked when I heard it. I have not stopped crying. This says so much to us as mothers of young black men. I know I am not crazy because I have seen so many people speak my thoughts today. My black son is suspect. My black son is dangerous. My black son is considered deadly, just because he is black. His blackness is considered a disparity of force.

And, another thought that mirrors mine. The trial was over before it started. We expected justice from 6 women who would have clutched their purses if Trayvon walked by.



I would have clutched my purse if George Zimmerman walked by, too.


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 5:17 pm • # 49 
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mpicky wrote:


Lotsa black males in Florida and they all know what Zimmerman looks like. They'll be "standing their ground" vs Mr. Macho.


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PostPosted: 07/14/13 8:41 pm • # 50 
There was a lot that disturbed me about this case...to much to write in one posting. I think the verdict was correct, in that the defense raised enough reasonable doubt that the 6 "purse clutching" ladies had no choice but to render a "not guilty" verdict...

But then, the defense really went into overkill on proving the point: one of the first things one learns in police academy is if you must fire your gun, shoot to kill: The defense lawyers really didn't have to work that hard--most of the defense was just theatrical icing on the cake. GZ was the only witness left to testify...with the exception of Trayvon's girl friend's testimony, which should have carried more impact on the case: her testimony rebutted GZs testimony that he was getting back in the car when Trayvon jumped him: under oath, in halting English, the young lady testified that Trayvon told her he was being followed... GZ in his statement to the police, had no way of knowing that this young lady would offer such damning testimony, proving GZ lied to the police...somehow I think that testimony became lost in the melee at the end. It troubles me that the jury seemed to dismiss this testimony...

i say the verdict was correct in light of the injuries that GZ evidently suffered...I don't think his head would have been bashed on the concrete if he had his gun drawn first; that he got the gun out of the holster tells me the holster was most likely unlatched, in which case the gun might have come loose in the confrontation with GZ recovering it and firing it. who knows? The only witness was GZ. When a cop unlatches his holster, it shows intent or willingness or expectation of having to use the gun...but the only witness claimed self defense, and his injuries seemed to validate this claim. And the prosecution failed to disprove this claim.

But while I don't know Mr. Zimmerman, I know a lot of young adults/older teenage men of all colors...and I think this verdict makes every parent want to hide or throw away the young men's hoodies, and keep them home after dark...

.I listened to GZs brother today on the news: he struck me as anal...and I wondered if GZ had been a poor black young male adult with a public defender as his defense team if things would have turned out as well for him: indeed, I wonder if his case would even have made it to trial, or if he would have ended up in one of the many many "plea bargains" that public defenders are so fond of churning out and GZ would not already be in prison...

And it troubles me that I have heard that the Feds, instead of accepting the verdict, are possibly going to investigate further, for possible civil rights violations....I feel that the verdict has been rendered, and while it may not be liked, it should be respected.


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