It’s Official, Rape Is No Longer A Girl Problem, It’s A Boy Problem. So Shut Up About Girls ‘Preventing’ Rape

It’s over. Everyone, it is OVER. We are done having the conversation about how we can prevent our daughters from getting raped. The new conversation we will now be having is how we can stop our boys from raping. I do realize that on rare occasions there are women rapists, but statistically, the facts are that more men commit rapes then women commit rapes. So we won’t be having the discussion about how to keep our daughters from becoming rapists. I will be happy to have this discussion when groups of six women and girls brutally rape a man with a steel pipe. All we (and I mean “we” collectively) ever discuss is how we can keep our girls, ourselves, women, safe from rapists. I know I have discussed before how we need to teach our sons not to rape, but this “new” conversation is one we need to be having constantly. And I will say this until my mouth is sore and my fingers fall off: We need to teach our boys how not to rape.

I don’t want to hear any more vaguely worded rape-shaming about how a girl could have minimized her chances of being raped. I do not care, and please, this is important, so please read carefully: I do not care how drunk a woman or girl was. She does not deserve to be raped. I do not care what a woman or girl was wearing. I do not care if Juicy Couture or Victoria’s Secret comes out with a new line of sweatpants with the words “Rape Me” emblazoned on the ass and a female person buys and wears these, she does not deserve to be raped. I do not care if a girl or woman has consensual sex with a man, changes her mind mid-coitus and says no, she does not deserve to be raped. I do not care how many dark alleys she walks down, how many bad parts of town she frequents, how sexually active she is, how much makeup she wears, the length of her hemline, she does not deserve to be raped. There is never an excuse, or reason, or justification for rape. Ever.

Responsible parents can speak to their daughters about how to minimize their chances of being raped. But the greater conversation we need to have is how to stop men and boys from raping. We have had years, and years, and years of rape prevention seminars for women, of safety tips and classes, of helpful hints so you don’t end up beaten and left in an alley somewhere after being sexually assaulted. We need the same sort of seminars, and pamphlets, and websites dedicated to teaching boys how not to rape. We need male politicians, and celebrities and athletes to do PSAs about how not to rape. We need fathers to talk to their sons about not raping. Women? We do this. We talk about rape, we are vocal about rape, we write about rape and protest rape and donate money to anti-rape organizations and write letters to get stricter rape laws passed. But we need more men to be as vocal as we are.



Read more: http://www.mommyish.com/2013/01/02/rape ... z2NRqiFggc

This is just disgusting. Jim obviously is one of those who needs to be educated since he is blaming women for rape for what they wear and where they go, etc.

Yes, most men are taught rape is wrong. However, some don't realize what rape is when it comes to consent, etc. "We were on a date and I bought her dinner, so I earned the right." "She got me all excited so it was too late to say no." "She knew what kind of party it was." "She took the drugs." Things like that are used by some who have been taught rape is wrong.

We are talking about assault on women and all Jim can think about is his warped view of what this woman said and his feelings are hurt so he says the most foul things about her and appears to include all women in this group. She is speaking from experience having been raped by a "friend" who had most likely been taught rape was wrong. Jim's reaction was "fuck her", "bitch", "feminazi". She probably asked for it, right, Jim?

This shows exactly what she's talking about. Attitudes need to change. Men need to be trained when they are young that there is never an excuse for this. If there is no consent, it is rape.

According to statistics in the 1988 book, "I Never Called It Rape," by Robin Warshaw, 84% of college men who committed rape claimed that what they had done was not, in fact, rape. One in 15 male students reported that they raped someone or attempted to do so in the preceding year. And "nearly one third of college men said they were likely to have sex with an unwilling partner if they thought they could get away with it."

A more recent study published in the Journal of Social and Clinical Psychology in 1998 asked students to what extent it was acceptable for a man to verbally pressure or force a date to have sexual intercourse. The responses show that 17% of men considered that using force was an acceptable strategy to get their way.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/28/opinion/e ... pe-comment

Without really knowing how it happened, I realised we were somehow falling behind the rest of the group. At first it didn’t worry me. They were in sight, it’s just that we were far behind them now. At one point I said something about it and tried to catch up with them, but he pulled me back. It was at that point that I suppose the victim-blamers will say that I should have screamed, shouted, cried for help. Because it was at that point I should have realised he was planning to rape me. But I didn’t. Because I was also taught, that to assume that a man is a rapist just because he’s stopping you doing something you are showing clearly that you want to do, is hysterical, man-hating, hairy-pitted feminism which is a Bad Thing. And so once again, his boundary-breaking behaviour, didn’t really bother or alarm me as I didn’t perceive it as boundary-breaking, I perceived it as normal. Women’s boundaries are constantly being broken by men and we are told all the time, that if we make a fuss about it, we are unreasonable, unfriendly, rude, hysterical, difficult, confrontational – all negatives, all things we should strive not to be. So if you are young and have never been raped and don’t know how common it is and you know that your boundaries are supposed to be broken because that’s what society has told you, you don’t feel alarm when a man breaks them yet again. In my case, I felt slight irritation, but nothing more.

*******

I hadn’t treated him the way society says women treat rapists, I’d treated him the way many women actually treat rapists – like a bit of a nuisance who have to be tolerated for a bit. I’d been socialised to believe that you just had to put up with men touching you when you didn’t want them to. The one time I’d seen a woman react furiously to such treatment, everyone laughed at her and said how over the top she was and how unreasonable when he didn’t mean anything by it. So I’d absorbed the message, that to treat a man who was acting like a rapist as if he were a rapist – the way society tell us to – was to be an hysterical, unreasonable bitch and you lose approval ratings if you’re one of those, don’t you, so like most young women, I’d buckled down to that message. It’s what women do. And then society tells us that it’s our fault we were raped, because we didn’t do the thing they call us hysterical bitches for, when we do do it. I didn’t act like the unreasonable bitch everyone had laughed at when he first overstepped my boundaries, so it was my fault he raped me.

http://beingfeministblog.wordpress.com/ ... pe-victim/

You mean bitches?

You mean bitches?

And their ilk...

Society tells women to ignore their instincts, to be nice all the time. I think we need to take back the word. I am a bitch. I am proud and strong and I am not afraid to speak my mind. I am a bitch.

The comments you make here is exactly what Maxwell is talking about.

Rape doesn't just occur in "dark areas", or to women who "dress like sluts", or women who are out "late at night".

You're doing exactly what she is saying isn't working; Putting the responsibility of preventing rape on women.

That's like saying to victims of gun violence, it's up to you to make sure you don't get shot.

I am all for including a Unit on Consent and What exactly is rape(date rape definitions) in Sex Ed in school. I really am, but...

Demonizing men isn't going to get us there.

Backstory...

In chat one night a chatter said something about the Lutherans killing the Jews in the Holocaust. I was livid. I was raised Lutheran; my whole family is Lutheran, and Lutherans didn't kill the Jews. It sounds like semantics maybe; I can buy Germans who attended the Lutheran church killed the Jews in the Holocaust. However, I am not going to be categorized as a Jew killer for being raised Lutheran. Instead of backstepping, the chatter said that I was behaving irrationally and that he was right which just perturbed me more.

I think it may be the case that jim considers categorizing all men as in need of anti-rape training to be demonizing the gender!!!!!

It seems to me jim is the only one focusing on ALL men ~ what she said was "men" ~ and it was said in the context of the interview, which was about rape and rapists ~ in that context, as I posted above, it's not a stretch to recognize the "men" she was talking about are the men who do rape/are rapists ~ for me, context matters ~

Sooz

I am all for including a Unit on Consent and What exactly is rape(date rape definitions) in Sex Ed in school.

The program I posted the link to in #14 ( I think?) is one that Maxwell mentioned, I haven't tracked down the other. It's just education and empowerment, it's not demonizing all men.

(Nor was Maxwell, IMO.)

A very worthy discussion. Much to be learned. Thanks for your efforts.

jd

I actually think they will have to talk to both genders (girls and boys in sex ed in high school) to discuss boundaries (what constitutes date rape) and consent.

I agree that it should be about education and empowerment!!!

I would think saying that we need to teach women not to dress like sluts is pretty victim blaming. And victim shaming.

Who called YOU a rapist? You have lost all sense of logic and are making this conversation about YOU. Why?

Jim, I said YOU need the training because YOU gave a perfect example of the misinformation. I stand by it. You blame the women by acting like rape would not happen if women behaved "right". That is bullshit. Women are raped in their homes, in churches, in libraries, wearing habits, wearing long dresses, wearing loose clothes, etc. Rape will happen regardless of what women wear, do, or where they go. Prostitutes can be and have been raped. Wives can be and have been raped by their husbands. Sexy women are raped. Homely women are raped. It is not about sex, it is about power and control.

Hannity wants women armed to prevent rape. You want women to behave a certain way to prevent rape. Neither prevents rape and neither deals with the problem, which is the rapists. Who needs to change? The rapists. What is the most effective way to get the facts to the group from which most rapists come. Educate men when they are young. Yes, all people should be educated on it as part of sex education.

Jim, your attitude is the kind that makes it the roughest for some women who get raped. Your attitude makes a woman question what she diid wrong, what she did to make it happen. She did nothing wrong to make it happen. Could she have prevented it?...possibly. Is it her fault? NO. Should she feel guilt? No. She was attacked. There is no excuse for it. There is absolutely no reason to put responsibility on anyone but the attacker.

This is why tougher legislation has trouble passing. Most of govt is controlled by men and there will always be those who think their egos are more important than anything else and who will throw away the well being of others if they perceive some insult. Priorities. They will say "I would defend any woman" while saying the sluts and bitches are responsble for ther rapes. Perhaps they could draw maps about where women can safely go and what they can wear to be safe. Oh wait.......that doesn't work.....women are raped everywhere and are raped regardless of what they wear.

So, no education for men because one who won't be a rapist might be offended. Far better to let women be raped by guys who think they have the right than to offend guys like Jim by clarifying what rape and consent are to men when they are young.

We are all "men hating feminists" and are far worse than rapists. Right, Jim? How dare we think that we need to talk to men about rape. Who cares that most rapists are men. It's the feminists who are the big problem. Ha. What a sad joke.

Jim, I think you're falling into the same trap you accuse feminists of--painting everyone in a group with the same brush.

Not all feminists hate men. I would argue that no true feminist hates men or anyone. Maybe rapists.

I think every group or political movement attracts it's share of dogmatics on the fringe, and feminism is no exception. It's not a group you need to take an intelligence test for--so there are a lot of people out there who call themselves feminists who don't know what they're talking about, and a lot of people out there that call themselves feminists that don't agree with each other. Feminism also attracts more than it's share of damaged people--people who have been damaged by the kinds of crimes we're talking about. And damaged people are not always all that functional.

I think there are multiple roles for feminism in our century--some of the most important of them are international, where many women in many societies do not enjoy anything like the freedom women in North America enjoy. But even here there are still important fights for feminism. does that mean fight men to the death? Of course not.

The most important role for feminism in the western world now is to fight systemic discrimination. (ftr, i also think this is true of anti racism movements as well). It is to educate and illuminate areas in which we as a society make discriminatory assumptions culturally, and often unconsciously. Assumptions like--if a woman is dressed a certain way she will have sex on command with anyone. If a woman is drunk, or behaving a certain way, she is fair game. Assumptions like, if a young man is a real man, he will jump at the chance to have sex with a drunken passed out girl, or someone who is not willing.

The law is a living document--we should constantly be questioning and trying to improve our sense of justice and fairness, to improve the righteousness of our government, our laws, and our ways of behaving. Fighting against systemic discrimination in our laws, our ways of doing things, even in our collective consciousness, has and always has had the potential to improve life and society for everyone in it. It is not a fight AGAINST anyone in particular as much as it's a fight FOR something.

As a mother, I have two goals when i talk to my sons (ftr, I have no daughters. someone else will have to provide that perspective) about this issue.

1. I want them to be able to protect themselves from rape charges, real or imagined.

2 (and more importantly) I WANT THEM TO GROW UP TO BE GOOD PEOPLE. And from where I sit, being a good person excludes having non consentual sex.

So yes, we talk about the feelings that come up with sexual urges. But i teach my sons that no actions from girls indicate that they are "entitled" to sex at the end of the evening. Not dress. Not making out. Not drinking. Not accepting drinks or drugs or dinner or presents. That no means no, no matter what stage of the "act" it is said in. As for blue balls, that's what masturbation is for. (And yes, I have been that explicit).

Ultimately, one of the most important lesson a young person of either gender can learn is that the only person they can control is themselves, and that they are responsible for controlling themselves. if this generation has a fatal flaw, it's their tendency to blame their problems on others, and the most important lesson they need to learn is personal responsibility.

A guy makes some mention of women having to take some responsibility for avoiding their own rape and he gets called a rapist.

A woman makes some mention of men having to take some responsibility and not BE rapists and she gets called a bitch.

That's because all women can do things to lessen their chances of being raped - maybe not in all circumstances but in some. All, all men can do is bear the blame for the actions of a tiny minority of the members of their gender.

You thinking it's unfair women take some responsibility for avoiding rape is the same as the person who just blindly walks into a crosswalk without looking because the cars are supposed to stop for them. "She was in the right" would be written on their headstone.

Jim, I think you're falling into the same trap you accuse feminists of--painting everyone in a group with the same brush.

Not at all Greenie, the only feminists I've derided are those fanatics of the ilk of the woman in the opening post.

You thinking it's unfair women take some responsibility for avoiding rape

When and where did I say ANYTHING like that? You're 100% wrong.

But unfortunately, that's not what you said. You used phrases like, "the feminist industry", and "feminazis". I have no idea what the first one means, and the second has been used by enough dipwads in the last couple of decades that it's become an offensive word. when I hear it, I make assumptions about the intelligence and the openmindedness of the speaker. You might as well use the "n" word to discribe human rights activists--you'll get about as far.

As for the original poster--I think you're being way too critical. She's not a man hater, or, if she is, it doesn't come across in that statement. I think she could have chosen her words better (and I agree, words matter. The more precise you can be with statements, the less likely you are to get into trouble). But I don't think she was talking about beating up on a segment of the population as much as she was suggesting that there were elements of the entire discussion that were being over discussed, and elements that were being under discussed. Again, systemic discrimination, in the unconscious decisions about discussions and omissions.

In clearer terms--Rape has historically been discussed by women. And that group of people have historically discussed issues surrounding the issue that are within their control--like making decisions about dress and walking alone and neighbourhoods. It gives women a sense of control and safety, to think that they are "safer" than the ones that were victimized. By blaming the victim amongst ourselves, we distance ourselves from the victim and feel good about the idea that "it could never happen to us".

But I think what this woman was saying (and, as a rape survivor, her voice i think is perhaps more valid than most) is that we need to turn the discussion from rape prevention (the way you would prevent a car accident or an onset of the flu) to rape as a violent crime, that must be discussed, educated, and PUNISHED. That the true path to prevention was the realization that rape of all kinds is a serious crime that will not be brushed off as "boys will be boys", even if your dad does give a lot of money to the university (for instance).

And you might say, but I don't need education, I already know that. And I would say, congratulations. You are enlightened. But it doesn't mean that misinformation about rape, about sexual conduct, about what is fair, moral, and LEGAL isn't rampant out there, especially among young adults. Sometimes we have to look at the body politic as an entity unto itself. You are one cell not invaded with the virus--but it's in the body in a high enough concentration that a system wide cure is necessary.

i like the idea that consent should be an important part of sexual education and education about puberty. And I don't think the idea that new education is needed is all that strange, when you consider how much the sexual norms have changed in our lifetimes. As late as 1965, there was no law making it illegal for a man to rape his wife--the rape laws were originally designed to protect the property and family name of male members of the family, therefore, there was no possible way to rape your own wife, your wife's sexuality was by definition yours for the taking. Things have changed alot--but not everyone, not every family, not every institution, not every community has changed with them. Is it so out of line to recognize a need to get that information out there in ways that it will be absorbed and believed?

ftr, I too am a rape survivor. Living on residence in a university in the eighties, I would say that date rape was rampant. Hard to prevent, hard to prove. But there, all over the place. Consent was barely discussed, but how drunk a girl was sure was. And how funny it was to mix a girls drinks strong, or spike them with drugs. And yes, girls and women can take precautions to keep themselves safe, just as you can take precautions against theft by locking your doors. But that doesn't make the thief innocent if you left your door open. Theft is theft, and rape is rape.

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I've never said anything of the sort. What I have said is that there are a group of women in what I call the feminist industry - including the woman in the opening post - who make their living promoting the "it's all men's fault" propaganda. I don't think Hannity could have picked a better dupe to promote his agenda. She was guaranteed to spout every professional catch phrase there was. Her job depends upon spreading the bull and the blame.

You said to teach women not to dress like sluts. You put yourself into a category with that statement.

Uh Huh! Try a little sugar in the cool-aid. It'll go down easier.