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 Post subject: Cowards Playing At War
PostPosted: 02/05/13 9:28 am • # 1 
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5 February 2013 Last updated at 09:55 ET
US drone strikes: Memo reveals case for killing Americans

The legal basis for using drone strikes to kill US citizens has been disclosed in a leaked justice department memo.

US officials can authorise the killing of Americans abroad if they are leaders of al-Qaeda or its allies, according to the document obtained by NBC News.

Lethal force is lawful if they are judged to pose an "imminent threat" and their capture is not feasible, it adds.

US drone strikes against militant suspects in countries such as Yemen and Pakistan are deeply controversial.

Under President Barack Obama the US has expanded its use of drones to kill hundreds of al-Qaeda suspects, arguing that it is acting in self-defence in accordance with international law.

Critics argue the drone strikes amount to execution without trial and cause many civilian casualties.

Legal framework

The undated 16-page Department of Justice white paper published by NBC gives more details of the justification for the use of drones outside recognised war zones.

It says sovereignty is not deemed to have been violated if the host nation gives its consent, or is unwilling or unable to suppress the threat posed by the individual targeted.

It also sets out a "legal framework" for the use of lethal force against US citizens in foreign countries.

It concludes that such killings do not violate the US Constitution as long as:

An informed, high-level official of the US government has determined that the targeted individual poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the US
Capture is infeasible and the US continues to monitor whether capture becomes feasible
The operation would be conducted in a manner consistent with applicable law of war principles
The paper adopts a broad definition of "imminent threat", saying it is not necessary to produce evidence that a specific attack is being planned if the target is generally engaged in plotting against the US.

'Remarkable document'

It also asserts that courts should not play a role in reviewing or controlling such decisions.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) said the white paper was a "pretty remarkable document".

Jameel Jaffer, deputy legal director of the ACLU, said in a blog post the paper revealed "both the recklessness of the government's central claim and the deficiencies in the government's defense" of its drone strike policy.

"This sweeping authority is said to exist even if the threat presented isn't imminent in any ordinary sense of that word, even if the target has never been charged with a crime or informed of the allegations against him, and even if the target is not located anywhere near an actual battlefield," Mr Jaffer added.

The ACLU has helped the relatives of three Americans who died in drone strikes sue the Pentagon and CIA. Their lawsuit claims the deaths were unconstitutional.

Anwar al-Awlaki, an al-Qaeda suspect born in the US state of New Mexico, was killed by an unmanned plane in September 2011.

Samir Khan, a naturalised US citizen who produced an online magazine promoting al-Qaeda's ideology, died in the same missile strike.

Awlaki's 16-year-old son, Abdulrahman, who was born in Colorado, was killed a month later.

The Obama administration has been under growing pressure from politicians in Congress to share more details of its drone strike programme, including secret legal documents.

Last month the UN launched an inquiry into the impact of drone strikes on civilians.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-21333570#


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PostPosted: 02/05/13 10:44 am • # 2 
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I'm amazed about the huge outcry about the targeting of Americans. The lives of other nationalities obviously don't matter much.


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PostPosted: 02/05/13 1:11 pm • # 3 
If an American is going to travel to a foreign land and take up arms with the enemy against us and our allies, however they get taken out, so be it. What I don't like about the drone attacks are the innocent folks that are being taken out. But then I also wonder how many of our troops, innocent folks and the enemy would be killed if we weren't using drones.

The answer to it all is get the hell out of there!


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PostPosted: 02/05/13 1:59 pm • # 4 
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the monster wrote:
If an American is going to travel to a foreign land and take up arms with the enemy against us and our allies, however they get taken out, so be it. What I don't like about the drone attacks are the innocent folks that are being taken out. But then I also wonder how many of our troops, innocent folks and the enemy would be killed if we weren't using drones.

The answer to it all is get the hell out of there!



i disagree completely. mistakes are often made in intelligence. bombing someone who we SUSPECT MIGHT BE involved with AQ is no better than bombing someone we SUSPECT MIGHT HAVE chemical weapons.

been there, done that, and have 40,000 dead children to mourn.


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PostPosted: 02/05/13 2:12 pm • # 5 
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the monster wrote:
If an American is going to travel to a foreign land and take up arms with the enemy against us and our allies, however they get taken out, so be it. What I don't like about the drone attacks are the innocent folks that are being taken out. But then I also wonder how many of our troops, innocent folks and the enemy would be killed if we weren't using drones.

The answer to it all is get the hell out of there!


Why are/were you there in the first place?
Why is there so much hatred directed at the US?


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PostPosted: 02/05/13 3:02 pm • # 6 
macroscopic wrote:
the monster wrote:
If an American is going to travel to a foreign land and take up arms with the enemy against us and our allies, however they get taken out, so be it. What I don't like about the drone attacks are the innocent folks that are being taken out. But then I also wonder how many of our troops, innocent folks and the enemy would be killed if we weren't using drones.

The answer to it all is get the hell out of there!



i disagree completely. mistakes are often made in intelligence. bombing someone who we SUSPECT MIGHT BE involved with AQ is no better than bombing someone we SUSPECT MIGHT HAVE chemical weapons.

been there, done that, and have 40,000 dead children to mourn.



It is true, mistakes in intelligence are made. However, when we target someone we KNOW is AQ, whoever is with them has to know too. What is an American doing riding with a leader of AQ in Yemen? We did not declare war on Iraq. We did not declare war on Afghanistan. We declared war on an ideology and those that fight under it. The AQ and the Taliban. In that region, ANYONE connected with either group is a target. I don't like it but that's the way it is. I prefer we never had gone and if nothing else, we get the f out of there...ASAP! Like yesterday, or 11 years ago!


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PostPosted: 02/05/13 3:07 pm • # 7 
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the monster wrote:
macroscopic wrote:
the monster wrote:
If an American is going to travel to a foreign land and take up arms with the enemy against us and our allies, however they get taken out, so be it. What I don't like about the drone attacks are the innocent folks that are being taken out. But then I also wonder how many of our troops, innocent folks and the enemy would be killed if we weren't using drones.

The answer to it all is get the hell out of there!



i disagree completely. mistakes are often made in intelligence. bombing someone who we SUSPECT MIGHT BE involved with AQ is no better than bombing someone we SUSPECT MIGHT HAVE chemical weapons.

been there, done that, and have 40,000 dead children to mourn.



It is true, mistakes in intelligence are made. However, when we target someone we KNOW is AQ, whoever is with them has to know too. What is an American doing riding with a leader of AQ in Yemen? We did not declare war on Iraq. We did not declare war on Afghanistan. We declared war on an ideology and those that fight under it. The AQ and the Taliban. In that region, ANYONE connected with either group is a target. I don't like it but that's the way it is. I prefer we never had gone and if nothing else, we get the f out of there...ASAP! Like yesterday, or 11 years ago!


agreed. but the best time to stop doing the wrong things is always NOW.


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PostPosted: 02/05/13 3:26 pm • # 8 
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Right.
Bombing the crap out of other countries isn't war cuz Captain Murrica says so.
OTOH, if it really isn't war then the US of A is a terrorist nation.
You can't have it both ways.


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PostPosted: 02/06/13 8:52 am • # 9 
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6 February 2013 Last updated at 08:17 ET
CIA operating drone base in Saudi Arabia, US media reveal

The US Central Intelligence Agency has been operating a secret airbase for unmanned drones in Saudi Arabia for the past two years.

The facility was established to hunt for members of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, which is based in Yemen.

A drone flown from there was used in September 2011 to kill Anwar al-Awlaki, a US-born cleric who was alleged to be AQAP's external operations chief.

US media have known of its existence since then, but have not reported it.

Senior government officials had said they were concerned that disclosure would undermine operations against AQAP, as well as potentially damage counter-terrorism collaboration with Saudi Arabia.

The US military pulled out virtually all of its troops from Saudi Arabia in 2003, having stationed between 5,000 and 10,000 troops in the Gulf kingdom after the 1991 Gulf war. Only personnel from the United States Military Training Mission (USMTM) officially remain.

'High-value targets'

The location of the secret drone base was not revealed in the US reports.

However, construction was ordered after a December 2009 cruise missile strike in Yemen, according to the New York Times.

It was the first strike ordered by the Obama administration, and ended in disaster, with dozens of civilians, including women and children, killed.

US officials told the newspaper that the first time the CIA used the secret facility was to kill Awlaki.

Since then, the CIA has been "given the mission of hunting and killing 'high-value targets' in Yemen" - the leaders of AQAP who government lawyers had determined posed a direct threat to the US - the officials added.

Three other Americans, including Awlaki's 16-year-old son, have also been killed in US strikes in Yemen, which can reportedly be carried out without the permission of the country's government.

Kristian Coates-Ulrichsen, an expert on Gulf politics at the London School of Economics, told the BBC that Saudi anxieties about the growing threat of AQAP would have been behind the government's decision to allow the US to fly drones from inside the kingdom.

"The Saudis see AQAP as a very real threat to their domestic security," he said. "They are worried about attacks on their energy infrastructure and on the royal family, so it fit their strategy to allow the drone attacks."

The existence of the base was likely a "sensitive issue" for both Washington and Riyadh, Mr Coates-Ulrichsen added.

A source close to the Saudi Interior Minister, Prince Mohammed bin Nayef, declined to comment when contacted by the BBC.

The Washington Post reported that President Barack Obama's counter-terrorism adviser, John Brennan, a former CIA station chief in Saudi Arabia, played a key role in negotiations with the government in Riyadh over building the drone base.

Saudi Arabia is home to some of Islam's holiest sites and the deployment of US forces there was seen as a historic betrayal by many Islamists, notably the late leader of al-Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden.

It was one of the main reasons given by the Saudi-born militant to justify violence against the US and its allies.

Leaked memo

The revelation of the drone base came shortly after the leaking of a US justice department memo detailing the Obama administration's case for killing Americans abroad who are accused of being a "senior, operational leader" of al-Qaeda or its allies.

Lethal force is lawful if they are deemed to pose an "imminent threat" and their capture is not feasible, the memo says. The threat does not have to be based on intelligence about a specific attack, since such actions are being "continually" planned by al-Qaeda, it adds.

NBC News said it was given to members of the US Senate intelligence and judiciary committees as a summary of a classified memo on the targeted killings of US citizens prepared by the justice department.

The latter memo was written before the drone strike that killed Awlaki.

Under President Obama, the US has expanded its use of drones to kill hundreds of al-Qaeda suspects in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Yemen. It says it is acting in self-defence in accordance with international law.

Critics argue the drone strikes amount to execution without trial and cause many civilian casualties.

Senators are expected to ask Mr Brennan about drone strikes, the memo and the killing of Awlaki on Thursday when he faces a confirmation hearing on his nomination to become the new CIA director.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21350437#


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PostPosted: 02/06/13 12:56 pm • # 10 
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this is the worst thing i have seen coming out of this administration yet.


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PostPosted: 02/06/13 1:35 pm • # 11 
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It started under Bush.
So 2 presidents have now lead terrorism operations.


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PostPosted: 02/07/13 12:14 am • # 12 
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oskar576 wrote:
It started under Bush.
So 2 presidents have now lead terrorism operations.


7x more active + a new base in Saudi Arabia? i call that worse.


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