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PostPosted: 07/03/13 10:34 am • # 1 
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Only Bolivians aboard Morales plane in Vienna: Austria
5:50am EDT

VIENNA (Reuters) - No unauthorized people were found on board Bolivian President Evo Morales' government plane at Vienna airport when Austrian authorities carried out a voluntary inspection, Deputy Chancellor Michael Spindelegger said on Wednesday.

The plane was forced to land in Austria after France and Portugal abruptly canceled air permits for it while en route from Moscow on Tuesday, apparently due to fears fugitive ex-U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden could be on board.

Bolivian and Austrian officials denied this.

"Morales agreed to a voluntary inspection," Spindelegger told reporters at the airport.

"Our colleagues from the airport had a look and can give assurances that no one is on board who is not a Bolivian citizen," Spindelegger added, saying rumors that Snowden might be on board were untrue.

Bolivia's ambassador to the United Nations told reporters in Geneva on Wednesday Austria's decision to search the plane was an act of aggression and a violation of international law.

(Reporting by Angelika Gruber; Writing by Michael Shields; Editing by Alison Williams)


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PostPosted: 07/03/13 10:56 am • # 2 
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I again renew my fervent wish for the entire world to take a significant "time out" ~ :g

Sooz


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 8:06 am • # 3 
sooz06 wrote:
I again renew my fervent wish for the entire world to take a significant "time out" ~ :g

Sooz


I absolutely agree 100%....to my admittedly limited understanding Snowden is no more guilty than other leakers to the media in the past--think Watergate....


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 8:49 am • # 4 
What Snowden did wasn't even close to 'watergate'.

I hope they find him, bring him back, try him and lock him up forever! He's a traitor!


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 9:32 am • # 5 
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The OP is not about Snowden.
You guys don't have any problems with forcing the plane of the president of a sovereign country to land and searching it for hours?


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 9:47 am • # 6 
jabra2 wrote:
The OP is not about Snowden.
You guys don't have any problems with forcing the plane of the president of a sovereign country to land and searching it for hours?



Austria after France and Portugal abruptly canceled air permits for it

This is the reason it was 'forced' to land in Austria. And Morales agreed to a search of his plane. It's not like it was forced to land due to military planes or being threatened with to be shot down. I have no problem with it at all.


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 10:21 am • # 7 
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Yeah!
Those South Americans are always wrong!


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 10:44 am • # 8 
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the monster wrote:
jabra2 wrote:
The OP is not about Snowden.
You guys don't have any problems with forcing the plane of the president of a sovereign country to land and searching it for hours?



Austria after France and Portugal abruptly canceled air permits for it

This is the reason it was 'forced' to land in Austria. And Morales agreed to a search of his plane. It's not like it was forced to land due to military planes or being threatened with to be shot down. I have no problem with it at all.


Austria didn't cancel the air permit. That's why the plane had only Vienna to land. All the other cpuntries humbly complied with the demands by the USA.
I wonder what would happen if Air force One would have been denied air permits. Just kidding!


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 2:04 pm • # 9 
No, I meant he HAD to land in Austria because their air permit had been cancelled by the other 2 countries. Fuel may have become a problem.

If AF1 had been denied? There'd have been hell to pay, my good man, hell to pay...lol


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 4:51 pm • # 10 
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The plane was forced to land in Austria after France and Portugal abruptly canceled air permits for it while en route from Moscow on Tuesday, apparently due to fears fugitive ex-U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden could be on board.


Official Government transports typically obtain 'diplomatic clearance' to transit other countries airspace. They are clearances that have 'time frames' attached to them. For example, you may be cleared to transit the airspace anytime within a 24 hour period. These 'dip clearances' are arranged well in advance. If your flight delays or your flight plan doesn't allow you to transit within the designated dip clearance times, you have to re-submit the dip clearance request. This could delay a flight 24+ hours depending on the country response to your new request. Sometimes, a flight is delayed and the timing of the flight plan will be very close to causing the plane to transit the country at the very last moments of the clearance time and the plane will depart 'hoping' for direct routing (request radar control for direct from point a to point b, in affect, cutting out some of their flight plan points saving time) to allow them to shave time to make their dip clearance window. If they ran out of time, their dip clearance would be void and transition of the airspace (unless emergency), would be illegal.
FORCED to land, as mentioned above, meant the plane was forced to land because they likely didn't have the fuel to go around the airspace of the 2 countries and still reach their destination, didn't have dip clearances to transit other airspace not originally on their fight plan, or, the couldn't re-file their flight plan in flight to be able to 'fly around' the 2 countries that revoked their dip clearances. They likely weren't intercepted by the French or Portuguese.

Once the plane landed in Austria, immigration likely searched the airplane. Now understand normally an aircraft (government) is sovereign territory and can't be boarded without permission of the aircrew. This is why Austria was 'allowed' to search. Plus, if the prez wanted to go into the terminal, flight crew wanted to go in the terminal to file a new flight plan, and if they wanted to get fuel without a hassle from the Austrians, it was in their best interest to be boarded.
Remember, Austria wasn't aware the plane was coming. In fact, they likely landed there so they could re-file, put in new request for dip clearances, and get fuel. Also, all their other dip clearances were likely going to expire since they were delayed.

I could go on but why? It's all purely speculation as to why their dip clearances were a problem with France and Portugal.

I just wanted to add some things to consider based on 20+ years of international, government travel.... as an aircrew member. :D

I don't get mad at the people, I get mad at the situation!


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 4:58 pm • # 11 
Thanks Del and good to see ya!


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 5:05 pm • # 12 
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Hey Monster! Hope all is well with you and your family. Have a great summer!

I don't get mad at the people, I get mad at the situation!


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 5:09 pm • # 13 
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.... I would also add, sometimes, countries will not allow over-flight of certain governments planes due to non-payment of ATC fees from prior flights. I'm sure Bolivia pays their bills but.... you never know.... lol

I don't get mad at the people, I get mad at the situation!


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 5:16 pm • # 14 
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....finally, here is a link explaining what it takes to obtain dip clearance for US airspace. The window here is 3 hours. It will vary depending on country. 72 hours advance notice is required for the US as well unless emergency or short notice... see this link if you want to see how difficult it can be to 'fly over' another country if you are governmental....
http://www.state.gov/t/pm/iso/c56895.htm

I don't get mad at the people, I get mad at the situation!


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 5:40 pm • # 15 
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Del, there's no hint anywhere why Morales was forced to land in Austria other that France and Spain suddenly canceled the permits.


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 5:56 pm • # 16 
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Jab,
France, Spain, Portugal, and Italy all denied/revoked (possibly in flight... It could have been revoked prior to take-off and the crew didn't realize it) 'Diplomatic Clearance'. There is no such thing as an 'Air Permit' when relating to Air Travel. 'Air Permit' is valid though when considering the EPA...lol just sayin', consider the source. It wouldn't surprise me if they got diverted due to a dip clearance problem. Why? Not a clue. Just wanted to point out that if the writer had a clue, they wouldn't use the term 'Air Permit'. Consider the source...

I don't get mad at the people, I get mad at the situation!


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PostPosted: 07/06/13 6:07 pm • # 17 
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Quote:
There is no such thing as an 'Air Permit' when relating to Air Travel.


I doubt the general public and journalists anywhere differentiate between "air permit" and "diplomatic clearance".
The point is that the flight through the air space of several countries was not allowed all of a sudden when rumors appeared that Snowden might be on board.


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