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Should the U.S. get involved in the conflict in Syria?
Yes, it's the humanitarian right thing to do. 11%  11%  [ 1 ]
No, the U.S. can't keep getting involved in overseas conflicts. 56%  56%  [ 5 ]
Undecided. 33%  33%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 9
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PostPosted: 09/01/13 9:50 am • # 1 

Image U.S. has firm evidence sarin gas was used in Syria chemical weapons attack, Sec. Kerry says




Should the United States get involved in the conflict in Syria? Please vote in the poll and discuss.


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 10:29 am • # 2 
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Based on the assumption Kerry is telling then truth?


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 10:54 am • # 3 

I think Kerry is telling the truth because he is not a lone wolf saying that chemical weapons were used.

But even if chemical weapons were not used, I STILL think the U.S. should get involved because it's the humanitarian right thing to do.

The Syrian people are being oppressed by a ruthless dictator and they want their freedom. We should help them gain that freedom. In the end, what is more important than freedom?

For those who say the U.S. shouldn't get involved, I would say that would no different than being apathetic. Let's say a bully down the street from you is beating up all the little kids in his neighborhood, and you have the ability to stop him. Wouldn't it be WRONG for you to look the other way and say, "Well, my personal safety is not at risk so I'm not going to do anything"?!


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 11:37 am • # 4 
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Who used the chemical weapons?
He doesn't say they have evidence of that but "assumes" it was Assad and not Al Qaeda or Hezbollah.
But then that's a very convenient ommission when the real objective is to undermine Iran... they have tons of oil that the US Big Oil wants on the cheap.
Another reason is that Kerry is a USian politician. When's the last time one of those told "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but"?


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 11:38 am • # 5 
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But even if chemical weapons were not used, I STILL think the U.S. should get involved because it's the humanitarian right thing to do.

How are the people of Iraq and Afghanistan doing? or Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia? or Chile and Iran?

They all got a dose of USian "humanatirianism".


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 2:53 pm • # 6 
oskar576 wrote:
Who used the chemical weapons?
He doesn't say they have evidence of that but "assumes" it was Assad and not Al Qaeda or Hezbollah.
But then that's a very convenient ommission when the real objective is to undermine Iran... they have tons of oil that the US Big Oil wants on the cheap.
Another reason is that Kerry is a USian politician. When's the last time one of those told "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but"?



And that's the biggest rub. We don't know who used the chemical weapons and without concrete evidence, there's nothing we should be doing other than expressing our condemnation on whoever used it. If it is used again, then the US should stand before the UN and call them on it! It's a no win situation for the US. Damned if you do and damned if you don't!


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 4:41 pm • # 7 
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Perhaps the US doesn't wnat the truth to come out because a US supported group/country is behind the chemicals?
That could explain why they are so anxious to drop bombs on Syria?


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 4:55 pm • # 8 
I say no for reasons I mentioned in oskar's thread on this subject.


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 5:01 pm • # 9 
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SciFiGuy wrote:
I think Kerry is telling the truth because he is not a lone wolf saying that chemical weapons were used.

But even if chemical weapons were not used, I STILL think the U.S. should get involved because it's the humanitarian right thing to do.

The Syrian people are being oppressed by a ruthless dictator and they want their freedom. We should help them gain that freedom. In the end, what is more important than freedom?

For those who say the U.S. shouldn't get involved, I would say that would no different than being apathetic. Let's say a bully down the street from you is beating up all the little kids in his neighborhood, and you have the ability to stop him. Wouldn't it be WRONG for you to look the other way and say, "Well, my personal safety is not at risk so I'm not going to do anything"?!


Is Afghanistan better off for us being there? Is Iraq? I don't think so.

As for your bully analogy, Syria is not down the street from us, it's across the globe. How about our allies in Europe and the Middle East do the heavy lifting for a change and we can just supply humanitarian aid?


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 5:03 pm • # 10 
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Well hell, it really doesn't matter what we think. It will either happen with congressional approval, by executive order or it won't happen, right?

I was never for the Iraq war and lookie what happened anyway.

Since we don't have all the facts, or maybe any of the facts, except horrible photos of the dead, who knows?

Maybe Dick Cheney ordered the chemical weapons attack. Maybe "Bo" did, or Regan from his grave. Our world is totally fucked up, we are being taken on a ride for which we didn't buy a ticket and it's making us all sick. :(


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 5:06 pm • # 11 
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From the CONservative (right wing... it used to be owned by that criminal Conrad Black)

UN strongly suspects Syrian rebels used sarin gas

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/UN-str ... gas-312178


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 7:23 pm • # 12 
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This makes me want to :puke Mainly because it won't make a difference in the US decision. :\'(

Syria dismisses U.S. decision to hold off, moves troops and weapons to civilian areas

Syria on Sunday derided President Barack Obama's decision to hold off on punitive military strikes, but also took precautions by reportedly moving some troops and military equipment to civilian areas.

.........

The main Western-backed opposition group, the Syrian National Coalition, said the army moved troops as well as rocket launchers, artillery and other heavy weapons inside residential neighborhoods in cities nationwide. The coalition said Assad ordered detainees to be moved to military targets for use as human shields against U.S. strikes.

........

One man said two members of the elite Republican Guards broke into an empty house he owns, showing him an official paper stating they were authorized to do so because Syria is at war. He said he bribed the soldiers and they left. A woman in another area said soldiers moved into a school next to her house and she was terrified.


Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/syria-dismi ... z2dh5x9aSQ


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 7:53 pm • # 13 
In conflicts such as this both the rebels and the govt will often use civilians like this. I have to admit that I don't trust word from the rebels any more than I trust what the Syrian govt says. Imo, neither side is representing or fighting for the best interests of the ordinary citizens. Our bombing would also not be in the best interests of those innocent civilians.


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 8:29 pm • # 14 
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grumpyauntjeanne wrote:
In conflicts such as this both the rebels and the govt will often use civilians like this. I have to admit that I don't trust word from the rebels any more than I trust what the Syrian govt says. Imo, neither side is representing or fighting for the best interests of the ordinary citizens. Our bombing would also not be in the best interests of those innocent civilians.


Yes, I know. That's why I want to puke. :( Next week, when I hold my sweet grandbabies, I will be thinking about this and the world we are leaving to them. I will cry.


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PostPosted: 09/01/13 10:46 pm • # 15 
roseanne, I can sure understand that. We're really screwing things up for them. We still have time to correct at least some of it though if we just start putting people in leadership who really care.


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PostPosted: 09/02/13 8:17 am • # 16 

Quote:
In conflicts such as this both the rebels and the govt will often use civilians like this. I have to admit that I don't trust word from the rebels any more than I trust what the Syrian govt says.


The rebels are the civilians. The rebels are the citizens trying to overthrow their ruthless dictator. I think it's unlikely the rebels would use "civilians" as hostages or human shields since we know the government doesn't care and fires missiles directly into the cities so they would know such a tactic would be pointless.


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PostPosted: 09/02/13 8:32 am • # 17 
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Hezbollah, Al Qaeda et al are Syrian "civilians"?
Really?
Calling dropping bombs humanitarian is like "fu**ing for virginity" (George Carlin).


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PostPosted: 09/02/13 9:25 am • # 18 
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From one of the foremost authorities on the Middle East. For those who don't know who Robert Fisk is, read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Fisk


Robert Fisk
Friday 30 August 2013

Iran, not Syria, is the West's real target

Iran is ever more deeply involved in protecting the Syrian government. Thus a victory for Bashar is a victory for Iran. And Iranian victories cannot be tolerated by the West

Before the stupidest Western war in the history of the modern world begins – I am, of course, referring to the attack on Syria that we all yet have to swallow – it might be as well to say that the cruise missiles which we confidently expect to sweep onto one of mankind’s oldest cities have absolutely nothing to do with Syria.



They are intended to harm Iran. They are intended to strike at the Islamic republic now that it has a new and vibrant president – as opposed to the crackpot Mahmoud Ahmadinejad – and when it just might be a little more stable.

Iran is Israel’s enemy. Iran is therefore, naturally, America’s enemy. So fire the missiles at Iran’s only Arab ally.

There is nothing pleasant about the regime in Damascus. Nor do these comments let the regime off the hook when it comes to mass gassing. But I am old enough to remember that when Iraq – then America’s ally – used gas against the Kurds of Hallabjah in 1988, we did not assault Baghdad. Indeed, that attack would have to wait until 2003, when Saddam no longer had any gas or any of the other weapons we had nightmares over.

And I also happen to remember that the CIA put it about in 1988 that Iran was responsible for the Hallabjah gassings, a palpable lie that focused on America’s enemy whom Saddam was then fighting on our behalf. And thousands – not hundreds – died in Hallabjah. But there you go. Different days, different standards.

And I suppose it’s worth noting that when Israel killed up to 17,000 men, women and children in Lebanon in 1982, in an invasion supposedly provoked by the attempted PLO murder of the Israeli ambassador in London – it was Saddam’s mate Abu Nidal who arranged the killing, not the PLO, but that doesn’t matter now – America merely called for both sides to exercise “restraint”. And when, a few months before that invasion, Hafez al-Assad – father of Bashar – sent his brother up to Hama to wipe out thousands of Muslim Brotherhood rebels, nobody muttered a word of condemnation. “Hama Rules” is how my old mate Tom Friedman cynically styled this bloodbath.

Anyway, there’s a different Brotherhood around these days – and Obama couldn’t even bring himself to say “boo” when their elected president got deposed.

But hold on. Didn’t Iraq – when it was “our” ally against Iran – also use gas on the Iranian army? It did. I saw the Ypres-like wounded of this foul attack by Saddam – US officers, I should add, toured the battlefield later and reported back to Washington – and we didn’t care a tinker’s curse about it. Thousands of Iranian soldiers in the 1980-88 war were poisoned to death by this vile weapon.

I travelled back to Tehran overnight on a train of military wounded and actually smelled the stuff, opening the windows in the corridors to release the stench of the gas. These young men had wounds upon wounds – quite literally. They had horrible sores wherein floated even more painful sores that were close to indescribable. Yet when the soldiers were sent to Western hospitals for treatment, we journos called these wounded – after evidence from the UN infinitely more convincing than what we’re likely to get from outside Damascus – “alleged” gas victims.

So what in heaven’s name are we doing? After countless thousands have died in Syria’s awesome tragedy, suddenly – now, after months and years of prevarication – we are getting upset about a few hundred deaths. Terrible. Unconscionable. Yes, that is true. But we should have been traumatised into action by this war in 2011. And 2012. But why now?

I suspect I know the reason. I think that Bashar al-Assad’s ruthless army might just be winning against the rebels whom we secretly arm. With the assistance of the Lebanese Hezbollah – Iran’s ally in Lebanon – the Damascus regime broke the rebels in Qusayr and may be in the process of breaking them north of Homs. Iran is ever more deeply involved in protecting the Syrian government. Thus a victory for Bashar is a victory for Iran. And Iranian victories cannot be tolerated by the West.

And while we’re on the subject of war, what happened to those magnificent Palestinian-Israeli negotiations that John Kerry was boasting about? While we express our anguish at the hideous gassings in Syria, the land of Palestine continues to be gobbled up. Israel’s Likudist policy – to negotiate for peace until there is no Palestine left – continues apace, which is why King Abdullah of Jordan’s nightmare (a much more potent one than the “weapons of mass destruction” we dreamed up in 2003) grows larger: that “Palestine” will be in Jordan, not in Palestine.

But if we are to believe the nonsense coming out of Washington, London, Paris and the rest of the “civilised” world, it’s only a matter of time before our swift and avenging sword smiteth the Damascenes. To observe the leadership of the rest of the Arab world applauding this destruction is perhaps the most painful historical experience for the region to endure. And the most shameful. Save for the fact that we will be attacking Shia Muslims and their allies to the handclapping of Sunni Muslims. And that’s what civil war is made of.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 89506.html


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PostPosted: 09/02/13 9:41 am • # 19 
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i believe everything Fisk says. i have found him to be the most accurate of any reporter in the ME.


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PostPosted: 09/02/13 9:56 am • # 20 
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He has been wrong in his opinions/predictions on occasion but I've yet to see him wrong in his facts.


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PostPosted: 09/02/13 11:46 am • # 21 
SciFiGuy wrote:
Quote:
In conflicts such as this both the rebels and the govt will often use civilians like this. I have to admit that I don't trust word from the rebels any more than I trust what the Syrian govt says.


The rebels are the civilians. The rebels are the citizens trying to overthrow their ruthless dictator. I think it's unlikely the rebels would use "civilians" as hostages or human shields since we know the government doesn't care and fires missiles directly into the cities so they would know such a tactic would be pointless.


As oskar said, Al Qaeda and other groups are involved. SOME civilians are involved, not all, not even most. Civilians have been used as human shields by the rebels in places like Lebanon. Even the UN acknowledges that. Civilian deaths are what groups like Al Qaeda and Hezbollah want because thats what people elsewhere will react to. They care as little about the innocent civilian deaths as the Syrian govt does. The more innocents who die, the better their chances. Countries like the US just act like it was the evil govt that killed them even though we know it may not have been. The innocent civilians have two evils fghting in ther country and killing them. You want to add a third evil.

IMO, people need to stop thinking that every rebellion is good. We need to realize that it may just represent a few and it may be outside people. Look at Egypt. People's protest? They got rid of Mubarek. Held a democratic election. Protested again although it would seem obvious it isn't the majority protesting because the majority elected the guy. Military takes control and arrests the democratically elected guy. Majority protests. Military kills some of them. Who do we support? We don't like the guys they elected.

We don't know what the majority of Syrians want. We can assume they want to live. We won't help that one by bombing their country. Freedom. Probably, but freedom may not mean what it does to us. A better leader, sure. Neither side offers those things. Our siding with Al Qaeda will not help accomplish those things. It will merely show again what hypocrites we are.


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PostPosted: 09/02/13 12:08 pm • # 22 
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Let's not forget the Israelis using Palestinian children as shields yet our respective governments never say a word.

Israel used Palestinian minors as human shields, detain and torture - UN
http://rt.com/news/israel-torture-pales ... ldren-004/


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PostPosted: 09/02/13 1:13 pm • # 23 
The other side uses the children as human shields, especially the Palestinian children. This was my point, that people will use THEIR OWN to get the publicity they seek. It was in reaction to sci-fi seeming to believe it couldn't happen in Syria.


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PostPosted: 09/02/13 1:25 pm • # 24 
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Time the Arab League took care of its problems.


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PostPosted: 09/02/13 2:35 pm • # 25 
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oskar576 wrote:
Time the Arab League took care of its problems.


wouldn't that be great?


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