Ok, so I've been reading self help blogs lately. (ok, I know it's not high literature. But I'm at a bit of a crossroads right now and...so I'm reading self help books. fuck off and don't judge me. humph. what's the opposite of self help anyway? self distruction?)

I've been thinking alot right now about the nature of relationships and commitment. And while I have some personal reasons for exploring it, I don't want to get into that. What i would really like is just some opinions. How important is commitment? What the hell is commitment anyway? And is the dude that wrote this blog male or female? does it matter? do men and women commit differently?

or should i just stop thinking about it and read eat pray love some more?

Committed Relationships
December 12th, 2010 by Steve Pavlina

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If you say you’re in a committed relationship, what does that mean? What are you actually committing to?

If I ask some people who claim to be in committed relationships what they mean by it, they might say things like:

I’m committed to my partner.

This answer is pretty vague, wouldn’t you agree? It could mean anything. Committed to what specifically?

How is this any different than taking care of your dog?

I’m committed to loving my partner.

That’s a step forward but still essentially a cop-out. Love is wonderful, but what’s the actual commitment you’re claiming to make? To feel the emotion of love for your partner 24/7? To feel loving at least once every couple days? To hug your partner 5 times per week? To live together in the same household? To have joint finances?

What are you actually saying? Temba, his arms wide.

I’m committed to having a spiritual bond with my partner.

I feel like I’m asking a Ferengi how much they’d like to donate.

Believing that you’re creating a spiritual bond is great and wonderful and all. But once you return from Narnia, then what are we really talking about here? Are you meditating together till your chakras look like a bowl of Lucky Charms? Are you smoking the same joint as one? What will we actually see of this spiritual bond you speak of?

When you define your commitment in such a vague way, there’s so much wiggle room that we could say you haven’t actually committed to anything yet. This is laziness masquerading as commitment.

I’m committed to only having sex with my partner.

At least we’re getting specific now.

I’m sure your partner is very shaggable, but this is merely exclusivity. Is that all there is to commitment? If you’re exclusive with someone, is that sufficient to claim that you’re in a committed relationship together?

And does this mean that prior to your current relationship, you were in a committed relationship with your hand?

I’m committed to my partner’s highest good.

Praise Hestia!

What’s your partner’s highest good? Are you sure it involves being with you?

Does this highest good include encouraging your partner to leave once you suspect that being in a relationship with you is no longer (or perhaps never was) equal to their highest good?

I’m committed to your highest good. Does that mean I’m in a committed relationship with you?

I’m committed to loving, cherishing, honoring, and obeying my partner.

How original.

What does that actually mean though? How does this translate into what we can perceive? You can love, cherish, and honor a friend or family member if you so desire. What’s so special about how this shows up in your committed relationship?

I like the obeying part though. Yum!

Defining Commitment
One reason so many relationships involve cheating, lying, and secrets is that the commitments are poorly defined. This creates gray areas that can be easily stretched until you reach the point of having crossed the border into breaking that commitment, but it isn’t clear at what point the border was specifically crossed.

How will you know if you’re honoring your commitment or not?

Be specific. Start by explicitly defining what your commitment looks like. What do you expect of each other? What have you decided to co-create together?

Talk about actions, events, feelings, reactions, expectations, and consequences. Step out of the conceptual realm, and move into the world of what’s perceivable. If you’re going to make a commitment, then let it be grounded in reality. Bring it over to this side of the wardrobe.

Making a subjective commitment is wonderful. That’s a good start. It’s perfectly fine to begin with abstractions like loving and honoring each other. But if it’s a real commitment — and not an airy fairy nebulous one that could mean anything — then there will be an objective side to it as well. The subjective and objective commitments are two sides of the same coin. Ultimately you can’t have one without the other.

If there’s genuine love present, how do you intend for it to manifest? Will this translate into flowers, joint finances, and having kids? Or will it show up as sailing around the world together, sharing bottles of wine, and hours-long lovemaking sessions? Or is it simply a matter of texting “I <3 U, Schmoopie!” twenty times a day?

Everyone has a different understanding of commitment. If you assume your partner’s notion of commitment is the same as yours, good luck with that. It’s a well-trodden path to disappointment and heartbreak. Be prepared for that slow sinking feeling down the road.

Reality vs. Semantics
As you discuss your commitment with your partner, be careful not to get lost fussing over the exact meaning of words like commitment and cheating. The exact labels you use aren’t that important. What matters is that you focus on what’s real and grounded and experiential as opposed to getting too abstract and vague.

Talk about what your commitment means to you in a grounded way. It may be less romantic than the ungrounded version, but creating that level of clarity can deepen your connection. You’ll tend to feel more connected when you and your partner clarify what you expect of each other and what you’re willing to give.

Saying that you expect your partner to love, cherish, and be faithful to you is likely to create headaches down the road. Instead, replace these vagaries with a specific expectation like, “If you were to kiss another woman in a way that’s more than a friendly greeting or a peck on the cheek, such as if you were to make out with her or French kiss her, I’d consider that a violation of our commitment, and I’d feel hurt and betrayed.” Or say, “I’d like you to take at least one specific action each day that you expect will make me feel loved and cared for, such as making me a nice dinner; going for walk together while holding my hand; cuddling me on the couch as we watch a movie; looking into my eyes and saying ‘I love you and care about you’; or slapping a slave collar on me, commanding me to strip, tying me to the bed, and shagging me rotten.”

Updating Your Commitment
As your relationship evolves over time, it’s wise to update your commitment now and then. Talk with your partner about the changes you’re experiencing. If you can’t renegotiate your commitment in a way that feels good to you both, then agree to let go with love, and give yourselves the freedom to seek out new partners who feel good about making the commitments you each desire.

You don’t actually have to commit to anything. So if the idea of being specific doesn’t feel right to you, then it’s absolutely fine to let go and to allow your relationship path unfold as it will. In that case, don’t get too attached to the idea of commitment as it relates to any one person, as it will simply devolve into attachment and clinginess. Commitment requires free choice, not obligation.

If you claim to be in a committed relationship but you don’t have a specific commitment with your partner that goes beyond the use of vague and ill-defined words, then don’t be too surprised when your connection gradually becomes something that appears committed on the surface but lacks the true spirit of commitment in your thoughts, feelings, and actions. If you haven’t spelled out any specific commitments, then you’re better off not using the C-word to describe your relationship. But if you still want to feel the spirit of commitment without going through the trouble of defining it, use a slave collar instead.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2010/1 ... tionships/

I am fairly sure I do not understand that article.

Wonder how old the author is and how long he's been in a committed relationship?

Commitment in a long term relationship means a lot of conversation and discussions of where we go from here. That involves compromise and reason and rational thought going down whatever road we chose together.

haha. i just read some more on that site. it is a guy and he was married for 15 years but is single now and believes in living a non-committed lifestyle.

but author not withstanding---what is a committed relationship? is it different for everyone, or are there some norms that most people agree on?

This article fits more of what i think a committed relationship is, though the stats on success of getting there are a little depressing. What do you guys think?

5 Stages of Committed Relationships
By Sarah Schultz



Expert Author Sarah Schultz
Have you ever wondered: Why is our relationship so hard? Things were so perfect when we first met - what happened? Most likely, the answer is that you've left the first stage of your relationship, and have moved into another. But could it really be that easy?

Yes! Most people understand that relationships grow and change over time... but what many people don't know is that they tend to evolve in the same way. There are specific, defined stages of long-term relationships, which offer new feelings, new challenges to overcome, and new opportunities for growth. And if you want your relationship to evolve into one of mutual respect, love and intimacy, it's likely that you'll have to experience all of the following relationship stages at some point or another. Take a look at the description of each phase - do any of this sound familiar?

Before we get started, you should know that most people experience these stages in this order, and will need to resolve the challenges in each stage before they can move successfully on to the next. Of course there are always exceptions to this rule. But for the most part, you can't get out of experiencing all of these stages if you want a healthy and fulfilling relationship. Every couple will move through these stages at different speeds, and most people will experience each stage more than once - it is common to fluctuate from one stage to another.*

Okay, now that I've given you the basic info, let's dig a little deeper....

Stage 1 - The Romance Stage

This is also known as the Courtship Phase or the Fantasy Stage, and can last anywhere from 2 months to 2 years. This is when you and your partner have just met, and everything is absolutely amazing. You can't get enough of each other. Neither of you can do any wrong in the eyes of the other... mainly because you're both still on your best behavior. The focus in this stage is on commonalities - you have so many common interests, you could practically be the same person! You show your partner your absolute best self, and you try to please each other as much as possible. Conflict is seen as "bad" in this stage, and is avoided at all costs. You can't imagine living without this person, so you begin spending as much time together as possible. This is the stage when our defenses are down the most, which allows you to be open to and fall in love. You and your partner are building an important foundation in this stage, so your relationship can grow. There are biological effects as well. When you're in this stage, your body is producing enormous amounts of endorphins, which makes you feel unusually happy, positive and excited about everything in your life (this is that "head over heels in love" feeling!). This is the stage most often portrayed in movies and romantic novels, for obvious reasons. Bottom line - you are happier than you've ever been, and can't imagine ever feeling any differently.

Stage 2 - The Disillusionment Stage

This stage is also known as the Familiarization Stage, or the Adjusting to Reality Phase. This is where you begin to realize that your partner is actually a human being (horror of horrors!). You get to know each other more and more, and as a result you start recognizing their various flaws and shortcomings. You see your partner in relaxed situations, and you become more relaxed as well. Since your body cannot possibly continue to produce the same levels of endorphins that it was in the beginning, those feelings of being on top of the world start to decline. Your partner's little habits aren't quite as cute as they used to be, but there is still enough goodwill from the Romance Stage that you're willing to overlook them. This stage can start to trickle into your relationship slowly, as you begin to see your partner for who s/he really is. Or sometimes it happens all of a sudden, when there has been some sort of dishonesty or deceit. This phase can be confusing and discouraging, since you've just experienced so much openness and connection in the Romance Stage. However, at this stage, your main job is to learn how to communicate and resolve conflict with this person effectively, which is an important skill if you want your relationship to continue.

Stage 3 - The Power Struggle Stage

This stage is also known as the Disappointment Phase or Distress Stage. As the characteristics from the Disillusionment Phase intensify, they become harder and harder to deal with. You will most likely begin to pull away from each other in this stage. At this point, you both still believe that conflict is a "bad" thing, but you are increasingly aware of your many differences. You fight to draw boundaries in the relationship, and as a result even small annoyances become big issues. This is the stage where you define unacceptable behavior, and most couples have occasional or frequent thoughts of leaving the relationship. More and more often, you start to feel like your partner is self-centered or un-caring, or even worse, that they simply can't be trusted. Deep resentments begin to build if you're unable to resolve your issues in a respectful and mutually agreeable way. Many couples get stuck in this stage, because this way of interacting becomes normal in their relationship. This is when it is absolutely necessary to learn to manage your differences effectively - to communicate and work together as a team, even though it's tempting to believe that your partner's sole purpose on Earth is to make your life difficult. Not surprisingly, this is the stage most couples are in when they decide to break up or file for divorce. However, if they are able to negotiate all of the landmines during this phase, they'll move on to....

Stage 4 - The Stability Stage

This is a restful and peaceful time, compared to the last stage. This stage is also known as the Friendship Phase or Reconciliation Stage. Some couples never make it to this stage, but the ones who do find that they have deeper feelings of love, connection and trust with their partner. You now have history together, and most people begin to rely on the predictability of the relationship. As you enter this stage, you begin to realize that your partner isn't perfect, but your personal differences aren't quite as threatening as they used to be. You're able to resolve most of your differences, at least to some extent, and you become more confident in the relationship. Some people feel a sense of loss in this stage as they learn to accept their partner for who they truly are, since this means they have to let go of the fantasy that was established early on in the relationship. But for the most part, the deepening sense of friendship and commitment is a good trade-off for those early feelings of butterflies and excitement. This is also when you begin to re-establish your own outside interests and friendships, which were given up in the Romance Phase. There is some danger that you may begin to drift apart from or become bored with your partner in this phase, so you should try to maintain the connection that was created in the Romance Phase. Overall, this is the stage when you finally begin to feel comfortable and happy with your deepening relationship.

Stage 5 - The Commitment Stage

This stage is also known as the Acceptance Phase, the Transformation Stage, or the Real Love Phase. It is estimated that fewer than 5% of couples actually make it to this stage, according to The Relationship Institute. This is the stage when both couples have a clear notion of who their partner is, faults, foibles and weaknesses galore... yet they make a conscious choice to be with this person in spite of all of those things (and in some cases, because of those things). You are no longer with your partner because you need them, but because you've chosen them, which means the level of resentment you felt in the Power Struggle Phase has decreased, if not disappeared. If you've made it to this stage, you and your partner are a team. You genuinely love your partner, and you look out for their best interests just as much as you look out for your own. Your partner is your best friend. There are few surprises about your partner's habits or character in this phase. You've collaborated to overcome many challenges together, and have grown to accept and support each other without restriction. Your vision for your relationship is in congruence with who you are and what you both truly want. You have discussed your future together - you have similar life goals, and you feel encouraged to define your relationship further. Many couples decide to make a formal or public commitment to each other in this stage (such as marriage) to demonstrate their intention to continue their relationship. This is the stage in which your relationship becomes a true partnership.

Sarah M. Schultz, MA, CPC is a certified Personal Development Coach in Park City, UT. Sarah coaches quarter lifers (adults in their 20s and 30s) who want to create meaning and passion in their lives by building lasting committed relationships, creating a fulfilling work/life balance, and managing the stress of major life transitions. Receive your free copy of her Special Report: "Five Steps to Creating a Life You Love!" on her website at: http://www.newheightslifecoaching.com

After.......ahem........3 marriages, I can say I still don't know exactly. I DO know that my current partner makes me feel valued and valuable, which I didn't have with the other two. I can say without reservation that we laugh a lot together. He makes me laugh when he knows I'm having a difficult day and vice versa, although he's better at it. We enjoy doing new things, traveling and watching movies together. He's expanded my palate, he taxes my knowledge and has educated me about things I'd never explored before.

The best part about it is that we aren't "done" yet. We have many places to see (albeit nothing exotic, but nearby), things to learn and ways to help each other grow and learn.

Is that committment? Maybe. Does such a thing really exist or do we force it because we think it should be? Sounds a lot like the "sanctity" of marriage trotted out by the religious right.

We both have been in places where the committment flew out the door for many reasons, so we are more relaxed, I guess. We don't worry about it. We don't have to work on our relationship. We did in the beginning, but that was only for about a year or so before we found our "stride". We just let it be what it is and that works for us.

That's not to say we never argue or anything. However, it's on an entirely different level than it was in my other relationships. Our arguments are respectful and always resolved quickly. Compromise sometimes, other times one of us concedes that the other is right, but we don't waste a lot of time arguing and never carry a grudge. Maybe maturity has a lot to do with it. Maybe experience. Or both.

Pretty good for a couple that works and lives together, imo. We argue more about work than anything else.

If you want to have a giggle at another couple's expense, read this. The more you read, the more you laugh:

http://www.mil-millington.com/

She really over-reacts whenever she catches me wearing her underwear.

ROFL

I haven't read that in a long, long time. I got the link about 11 years ago and do re-read it sometimes.

That quote reminds me of a joke:

From a man: "Today I went home, strode into the house and ripped my wife's panties off......



They are too small and the elastic was cutting off my circulation."

I've been thinking about this since greeny first posted the thread ~ "commitment" is both very complicated and very simple ~ for me, one of the problems is that people tend to either rush into or run away from "commitment" ~ and another problem is that one partner wants/demands "commitment" and the other is not ready for that or is afraid of what that means ~ and we can't dismiss the societal pressure ~ one of my personal "truisms" is that we are too anxious to meet that societal pressure ~ and we make decisions before we really know and understand what we personally need to succeed at long-term "commitment" ~ we need to make our first "commitment" to ourselves ~ we need to know ourselves first, know what our own needs are ~ and we need to be willing to give as much as we take ~ everyone has different needs and different tolerances for others' needs ~

We can't control who we fall for ~ but, for a lasting "commitment", we need to really like the partner ... which is much more difficult and intense once the heat and excitement of early attraction cools off a bit ~

Still thinking on this ~ might have more to add later ~

Sooz

I think it boils down to this: You need to do what makes you happy. But at the same time, you need to share it with your partner to make sure you're both on the same page. If your partner doesn't agree with what you want, then you either need to sit down and work out a compromise on what will make you both happy, or else find someone else.

What's the old "c" word?

"Coot", oskar ~

Sooz

I agree, Sooz. It does seem to be both "very complicated and very simple".

When you say "societal pressure", I think of how so many have the expectations of finding someone, getting married, and raising kids while they are in the twenties. It seems to me too many assume this is how it 'should work' rather than considering what is best for them.

After my divorce, I remember talking with some younger coworkers who seemed to have this idea that they wouldn't let that happen, as if they were too smart to get into a marriage that would end in divorce.

No doubt some of us change as we age. We discover who we really are and what is important to us. (I know it worked like that for me.) Until one reaches that point, they aren't likely to have a truly successful relationship.

Yeah. Regret is kind of a useless emotion.

Thanks everyone, and everyone who responded to me privately and in chat. You've given me a lot to think about, and maybe my midlife crisis will go that much more smoothly.



I still like the second article though. That fifth phase, the true love phase, is awfully appealing to me. But no one can make that happen, i guess. Both people have to want it, and to get there, and be able to get there.

maybe someday. in the meantime, there are a lot of fun and interesting things for me to explore in the now.