Spirituality may be our feelings that we do not believe to be contained within our corporeal body or brain. Sometimes we feel a connection to the universe or to other people that is intangible and does not contain matter. It seems to come to us from outside our physical
make up, or to leave our bodies/brains and go out into the world. Love, empathy, understanding, peace, presence. Sure, there are autonomic physical accompaniments to our emotions that are scientifically verifiable. But to us, it feels like there is something more...

It's the difference between "there is nothing beyond what we see" and "there may be something beyond what we see".

To you.

Exactly, oskar ~ that is what makes it "ephemeral" and so difficult to describe ~ not everything is concrete ~

Very nice posting, Kathy, Chaos, and Queenie ~

Sooz

The only absolute is that there aren't any.

You are being insulting to those who claim to be spiritual. I never said that non-spiritual people aren't good people or don't try to be better people.


I apologize Rose (although it wasn't meant as an insult). I missed the "can" in "it can mean "trying to be a better person".

You know what love means to you. You have no idea what it means to anyone else.
If that were true then I would be living in a fantasy world, and so would everyone else. Human beings share common experiences and common feelings and we give them names that we can understand. If that isn't true then we don't understand anyone else at all and we couldn't possibly empathise with them. Without empathy we can't even be human.

Your list is a list of what people might love, not what love is.

Those definitions support roseanne's comment that "it means whatever you want it to mean" ~


I don't see that a all sooz. There's definitely a common theme running through them in Oskar's list.

For instance, if I "wanted" it to mean "aardvark's nail clippings" it wouldn't really fit.

Nice dialogue Kathy. I've never read the book.

But it seems to me its saying exactly the opposite of "Love comes in many types and with many different definitions". "Different types", yes. but the key bit is "still a car".

It's the difference between "there is nothing beyond what we see" and "there may be something beyond what we see".

Thanks Chaos, it seems to me that is one of the things that people are talking about when they talk of the "spiritual" - probably the key one.

The issue for me is whether or not the other connotations of "spiritual" fit with that. I don't think they do, but I'd agree that its an open question.

And it seems to me that Queen is saying something similar. Those are the issues that I am interested in.

Only if you don't believe in their ability to predict the future.

But here's one misunderstanding we have to overcome:

By these standards, "delicious" or "enjoyable" are also "meaningless" words because they mean different things to different people.

But they don't mean different things to different people at all. What is subjective is what words like "delicious" are applied to.

So, for example, If I say "cabbage cooked in butter is delicious" and you say "yuck" all that means is that we differ about cabbage, not about the idea of "delicious".

The fact that the same word can be applied to a number of different things doesn't change its definition.

Even if you did that wouldn't be what spirituality means oskar.

If your definition of spiritual means "aardvark's nail clippings", that's YOUR problem and for me denotes a bigger problem than simple misunderstanding ~

I believe there are many kinds of "love" ~ I love children and my family and chocolate differently than I love a spouse/significant other/partner ~ also, I don't buy into your cabbage/delicious comment ~ I like/eat raw cabbage but dislike cooked cabbage ~ so to me the qualifier is "delicious" ~

You're entitled to your opinion, CM ~ and I'm entitled to disagree ~

Sooz

What is subjective is what words like "delicious" are applied to.

Ditto "spiritual".

The fact that the same word can be applied to a number of different things doesn't change its definition.

Of course it does. Lots of words have more than one definition, and they're all accurate. "Delicious" doesn't always involve the senses of smell and taste-there's delicious irony for example...or a delicious joke. Sure, there's generally a positive connotation to the word "delicious", but the definition can and does change depending on what it's applied to.

Blue the color vs. blue the emotional state. Discuss. lol

Not everything is a matter of opinion sooz.
In fact, very little is. But there's always room for disagreement. In fact there's always room for disagreement unless its a matter of opinion.

And if the definition of "spiritual" is simply a "matter of opinion" then why would you think there's a problem with the aardvark definition?

Yes. The qualifier is "delicious". And we BOTH use that word "delicious" to mean roughly the same thing.

Yes there ARE many kinds of love - but they are all kinds of love, not of something else.

That's why we use the same word for them.

Horses and mice, are very different types of mammal, but they both fit into the definition of "mammal".

Words have different meanings, but the meaning isn't changed by what they are applied to at all. we understand which meaning is being used through the context.

eg:
1. That's a blue wall.
and
2. That's a blue jumper.

Does "blue" mean the same color?

1. I'm feeling blue.
2. He's feeling blue.

And if you translate the two sets into Spanish (for example) they are actually two different words.
Does "blue" mean the same emotion?

And while we are at it, one of the words that has different meanings is "meanings".

Words - that's the difference. The "talk" vs the "walk".

Hey! You lasted longer than I did.

Without context there isn't a "correct" answer. With context we get back to the circular argument of what the word means.

I think chaos gave a fairly good working definition back in post 26.

Spirituality is the belief that "there may be something beyond what we see".

Where we seem to be wrapped around the axle is this varies from spiritual person to spiritual person.

Perhaps the problem is with the word definition- defining something that is indefinite. Perhaps spirituality is a concept, intangible, indefinite, not finite.

Agreed. And that's what makes a discussion about the definition somewhat pointless.
The statements:
To me, "spirituality" is <insert definition here>.
or
To me, "spirituality" isn't <insert definition here>.
can beither be proved nor disproved any more than the existance or non-existance of a god or gods.