this debate is never going to happen. how it has ALWAYS gone in the past is this:

injustice occurs
riots occur
those that are responsible for the injustice point to the riots as proof that the system needs to be preserved
nothing changes

I don't have law firm experience have a little law enforcement background and to go immediately to trial in this case without grand jury investigation I think would have ended up like a carnival. I do agree McCullough should have stepped but I think the grand jury was necessary. I also think most police officers would agree with me. Brown went for the gun once I would not have given him a second chance
Brown was warned and didn't heed the warning
In such a case there is no such thing as shooting to " wound" but you shoot to hit--if it's a kill shot well that happens when you charge an officer who has his weapon drawn. And I think every cop in America agrees with me.

I don't have law firm experience have a little law enforcement background and to go immediately to trial in this case without grand jury investigation I think would have ended up like a carnival. I do agree McCullough should have stepped but I think the grand jury was necessary. I also think most police officers would agree with me. Brown went for the gun once I would not have given him a second chance
Brown was warned and didn't heed the warning
In such a case there is no such thing as shooting to " wound" but you shoot to hit--if it's a kill shot well that happens when you charge an officer who has his weapon drawn. And I think every cop in America agrees with me.

And I think every cop in America agrees with me.

I doubt it.
And I'd not be surprised if Ferguson police/McCulloch held back evidence.

Cannalee, I support the grand jury process ~ but I believe McCullough tainted this grand jury from the get-go ~

And I agree with oskar's "doubt" in his above post ~ your comment "... no such thing as shooting to " wound" but you shoot to hit--if it's a kill shot well that happens ..." is chilling in the extreme to me ~ I reject the "well that happens" mindset ~ my very long-term significant other was a cop/detective ~ he thought of himself and acted as a "peace officer", a concept that seems to have been lost in the last several years ~

Sooz

Indeed, sooz.
Not very long ago killing was the last option, not the first.

"The Onion Field" by Joseph Wambaugh is required ŕeading for cops. Wilson was in fear of losing his gun
Killing is the last optio The situation had reached that point. And you don't shoot to wound. That's only in movies.

Does that include semi-psycho cops who watch too many SWAT movies?

I realize shooting to kill sounds cold but what could have happened had Brown gotten the gun is every cop's nightmare. For him to have been charged under these circumstances would have been totally wrong.

For Wilson to be charged I mean. And yes I do think I could safely bet most cops feel like I do

So what. It doesn't mean they're good cops.
In the UK they don't even have guns. They HAVE to be good cops.

Are the people of the UK armed like American? First responders in Ferguson had hollow points being fired at them. I am not for racism or police brutality but there are times when shooting is necessary. I think the slander that Wilson's name and career have suffered was totally wrong. The perp happened to be black. Had he been white there would not have been the uproar. But I think Wilson would have shot no matter what color Brown was. _Wonder if the baby Wilson was helping on a prior call was black
Fact is people don't like cops unless they need one
That is the other undercurrent of this situation: hhatred and distrust of cops.

Are the people of the UK armed like American?
UK crooks are have guns.

First responders in Ferguson had hollow points being fired at them.
That's news to me but it's irrelevant since we are talking about an UNARMED person being gunned down. IMO, Wilson simply panicked.

I am not for racism or police brutality but there are times when shooting is necessary. I think the slander that Wilson's name and career have suffered was totally wrong. The perp happened to be black. Had he been white there would not have been the uproar.
That's racism. It isn't so much the shooting itself as it is the ensuing lying and whitewash.

But I think Wilson would have shot no matter what color Brown was.
And that would mean he'd still be a bad cop.

_Wonder if the baby Wilson was helping on a prior call was black
Totally irrelevant.

Fact is people don't like cops unless they need one
That is the other undercurrent of this situation: hhatred and distrust of cops.
That's a load of nonsense.
Edit: Though considering the number of non-whites who have been screwed over by the so-called "justice system" it shouldn't come as a surprise if MANY don't have much faith in law enforcement.

Cannalee, why do you think that some people "hate and distrust cops"? ~ I agree with that comment, but I believe there are a few reasons for that ~

Cops are "authority figures", so it's likely that some people will "test" that authority ~ cops are, or should be, trained to deal with that ~ but mostly I see it as being because the people who "hate and distrust cops" have been abused/mistreated and disrespected by cops since the beginning of time ~ the cops have set the tone ~ there have been an untold number of studies done that compare cop treatment of blacks and of whites who commit the same or similar crimes ~ or even no crimes at all ~ but guess who comes out with the short end of the stick in each and every study ~

It all circles back to one hard truth: racism [including distrust/dislike of other nationalities, religions too] is alive and well in the US ~ it's the "go to" mechanism for dealing with far too many issues ~ and it is so ingrained in the public psyche that most people don't even see it in themselves ~

Black people are generally NOT respected in this society ~ we see it every day, in both big and small interactions ~ and I don't blame them for resenting that ~ I'm probably more sensitive to racism in all its forms because of the student demographics at our school [98% black, 2% Hispanic] ~ I spend hours listening to the kidlets describe their feelings of not being welcome or of being ignored/ostracized or of being treated "differently" just because their skin tone is darker ~ for whites, it is not very difficult to understand why blacks feel that way ~ except that too many of us don't bother to even try to answer that by looking at our own behavior and biases ~

Sooz

I absolutely agree that racism is alive and strong in our country; I also think it is not just a fault of whites but is inherent in all cultures. But Wilson should not be crucified for the sins of our country. Wilson was not capable of wrestling again with Brown and Brown knew it. The shooting was senseless and tragic but because of Brown's actions it was necessary.

That's where we disagree, Cannalee ~ I see Wilson's total lack of remorse at taking another's life, no matter the circumstances, as proof of his "cowboy" mindset and sense of entitlement ~

Sooz

"The shooting was senseless and tragic but because of Brown's actions it was necessary."

There's an example of the unconscious racism that is present in all of us. That simple contradiction between the shooting being "senseless" and being "necessary" illustrates it rather well.

Exactly, oskar! ~ racism, in all its forms, is insidious ~ and while most of us have "filters" that allow/force us to stop short of killing, we are ALL guilty to varying degrees ~

Sooz

Unfortunately life does have its dichotomies but just because a dichotomy exists doesn't mean it contains racism.

Unfortunately life does have its dichotomies but just because a dichotomy exists doesn't mean it contains racism.

Huh?

I agree with Cannalee's comment: "... it is not just a fault of whites but is inherent in all cultures" ~ that is tribalism ~ but this thread is about a specific example ~ and in my own view that specific example went bad at the get-go ~

Sooz

I agree with the first sentence but strongly disagree with the rest.

Please explain your last comment, oskar ~

Sooz

I absolutely agree that racism is alive and strong in our country; I also think it is not just a fault of whites but is inherent in all cultures.

I agree with this bit.

Sorry, I thought your comment was about my preceding comment ~ that's what I didn't understand ~

Sooz