No, jim, you just think we are part of the industry, towing the party line. You apparently think women can't think for themselves and see the problems for themselves. Where have I said anything like that? It's not true, although it is clear that there are members of the industry (including those who self-identify as being part of it, who are incapable of thinking for themselves.

>>>>One example is here: "Yeah, I could be, especially since all either of you can do is revert to the party line whenever someone questions your pet theories."

>>>>jim: "Well, despite the best obfuscation efforts of those of you in the industry, none of that is true. I'm not a rapist. "

>>>>jim: "Watch what happens when some hapless fool suggests women not hit their men or, as we see in Jeanne's industry apologia post 26, someone suggests that maybe some money and resources be devoted to men who may be subject to spousal abuse."


Even if that were true, I would find it far preferable to the archaic "it's the victim's fault" views of people like you who cling to the idea that rape could be stopped if women just behaved better and dressed the way you think is appropriate. Again you are inventing things I never said or believe but is typical of the baseless accusations which you and others of your type use to ensure women continue to be victimized. You are actually terrified women will become strong, independent and capable of taking care of themselves without you telling them how incompetent and downtrodden they are. Or the weak little men who say oh I am scared of the women at work. I would comment at this hoary old chestnut if I could stop laughing long enough. Or the men who appear to deny that verbal, emotional abuse is part of the violence in the statistics. You jumped on me for pointing out that they include verbal. Why would that be, jim? Do you not consider verbal and emotional abuse to be part of the violence? I've never denied that emotional abuse is a form of violence. That denial is solely the purview of the women's movement who consider it abuse or violence only when it is directed from men to women. Men, they claim, should just suck it up when it is from women to men. The men who do that must be part of the dreaded feminist industry you describe, eh? Men who profit from keeping women down, not just making them feel like victims, but actually making them victims. Naw! There might be a few men in the industry but, with the exception of abusive men, most men want women to succeed. It's other women, populating the industry, who are struggling so hard to ensure women remain victims and who are profiting from that victimhood.

>>>>jim: "Because of the industry whining, guys aren't sure what they can say to the women they work when they have to parse their words to the degree the industry demands. No matter what they say the woman can screech "sexual harassment" and the guy loses his job. So what the guys do is just ignore the women they work with and that includes shunning them in lunchrooms and refusing to train them on-the-job."

>>>>jim: " In general, what I am saying is quit blaming men for everything and start shouldering some of the responsibility for making things better. There are individual men who are assholes, but most of us aren't so, if you don't want to be shunned, held back and isolated at the workplace, tell your industry to shut the fuck up, quit blaming all men for everything so that they have to be afraid of you and show them what you can do."

>>>>jim: "Combined those articles reference nearly 2000 different studies that indicate women are more violent than women in relationships and the one you picked out was the one that had a small reference to verbal abuse being a type of violence....and then you wonder why you get labelled as part of the industry."

>>>>jim: "Hey! By all mean, put on your micro mini and skimpiest top and go parading. See what happens. I agree you have every right to do it. I agree it's not your fault if you get raped. Getting hit by a car when you don't look both ways at a cross walk before stepping into the street isn't your fault either, but I've met smarter stumps if you do it."

>>>>jim: "It is not unknown for women to beat up their husbands, but, if someone we to accuse women of being husband beaters the way men are accused of it the feminist industry would go berserk.

>>>>jim: "For the most part anybody who doesn't toe the party line as dictated by the "women as victims" industry receives the kind of bitter, ill considered ridicule spewed in Soozs' post 8 or the faux mystification at "how can people mention women do the same things" diatribes."


I think I'll stick with the side that says enough of this bs and empowers women. You'll need to change you attitude and open your eyes in that case. Jim, you can stay with your side and continue to blame women for the problems women have. I've never done that. Suggesting that women have to be careful, doesn't blame them anymore than it's the fault of the guy who steps in front of a bus because he's got the right of way. Absolutely right but dead in any event. I'll stick with the side that works for equality -then you had better join it- and you can stick with the side that whines and jumps on words. I don't whine and jump at words. I do object when the industry deliberately describes the problem so broadly and in such false terms that it can never be solved and thus perpetuates their livelihood. I'll stick with the side that tries to tear down the archaic stereotypes -you're the one who is so locked in archaic stereotypes and unthinkingly parroting party lines that you can't see how much you are victimizing women, the very people you purport to help - l to help men and women, gays and straights, you can stick with the side that tells them to shut the fuck up. I'll stick with the side that blames rapists for rape and abusers for abuse (all kinds of abuse). Then join that side. I you do, my work here will be done I'll stick with the side that tries to educate on rape, abuse, false reports, sexual harassment. You can stick wth the "but I don't do it" /"but, they do it, too" side.