Where are all these men who need shelters? Where are the men fighting for shelters if they are needed? ldybroker mentioned her experience. 2 men and they were helped but they can't build a shelter for 2 men. They cant kick out 100 women for 2 men to give them that shelter. I guarantee it cost more than a dime to put those 2 guys up in a hotel. My experiences have shown about the same. The laws tend to be written , and the charitable organization rules where any victim who needs shelter gets it . Women had to fight for this, they had to prove the need was there. Men need to prove there is a need for shelters for men. As ladybroker said the funds are hard to come by. Money was used to help those 2 guys. The few guys I know of who needed help got it. The others I have heard about got help. If there is some hidden mass of abused men who need shelters, they need to come out and let the need be shown. It's not the fault of feminists that they don't.

No need for mens' shelters huh? Typical feminazi bull shit! Might need the money for another useless conference in some exotic locale. How about we look at the experience in Norway where someone actually thought there might be a need:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/allnews/nor ... -shelters/

Interesting article jim.

It is good to see that Norway seems to start taking this problem seriously. As a Swedish man learning about this story, it sounds like a utopia for me. In Sweden battered men still have no refuge. They get laughed at by the police, or in the worst cases, they get arrested themselves. Battered men do not dare to seek help at social services in Sweden. If they do, chances are they never will see their kids again.

I imagine the problem is the same everywhere. Men are afraid to admit they are battered/abused, much less willing to lobby for shelters as that would expose them. Other (not abused) men won't do it, because they have similar views about battered/abused men. It's hard for them to believe that men are in those situations. "A man wouldn't take it" "He must be a pussy".......that sort of attitude. If there were mandated space available for men, they would seek help. That, in itself, would help change the attitudes of others, bring to light the plight of abused men and , I think, surprise people with the numbers.

jmo

Did I say there was no need? I believe I asked you where these men are who need the shelters and why they do not fight for help like the women had to do. As I also said, men who need help here get it. So far, the need has been satisfied by hotels and such. How is that different from Norway? Apparently guys do let it be known there that they need help and they fight for it. Maybe if our guys showed the same courage instead of whining on here we would see there is a need. Not everyone who gets abused needs a shelter. I don't know about the funding in Norway or the economics.

As for the conferences, you crack me up. They have nothing to do with me. Men have their "conferences" in exotic places where the business done is paying their prostitutes, drinking and golfing. Ha.

Call me feminazi all you want. Coming from you it's a joke. Stop whining and do something to get your shelters if you need them.

I am not jim, but as I said in my post........these men are afraid to come forward, just like the men from Sweden, as explained in the article. In our society it is much easier to believe a woman is a victim of abuse, so abused men remain hidden and silent lest they be ridiculed.

jim is addressing that viewpoint, I think. With the way men are flocking to the shelters in Norway it's evident that they are needed.

I think that this is a gender-less issue and at the heart is an abuse issue. Man, woman or child. EVERYONE should have access to safe places, counseling and protection from their abusers. NO ONE should have to fight for it. I think Norway saw that and acted accordingly.

I see abused old women and old men in the hospital. One woman's hip was broken by her husband with Alzheimer's disease. She lied to people until she talked to me about the events leading up to her hip being broken. She didn't blame him she blamed the disease.

There was an 80-something year old man with COPD who was afraid to go home with his wife and said she was abusing him. The hospitalist laughed who'd abuse an old man, and I answered an old woman.

I think it's a genderless issue. I think the drug-addicted women giving birth to addicted babies are guilty of a form of abuse, too. Family services helps and monitors and tries to keep families together.

There is a lot of work to be done.

No need for mens' shelters huh?

Exactly WHO here claimed there was "no need" for men's shelters?

women had to fight for help, still have to fight for funds. Women had to fight to get past the views that they asked for it and that men had the right to abuse women. Women were and many still are afraid to report it. Shelters have to fight for funds. Women went through a lot to have abuse recognized as a serious problem. Of course, everyone who needs help should get it. I've said that, too. However, we don't always get what we want easily. Men need to fight the same way women have had to and still have to.

Did I say there was no need? I believe I asked you where these men are who need the shelters and why they do not fight for help like the women had to do.

It seems to me, Ladybroker just posted an article regarding men starting to fight for recognition. I don't really approve of their methods but it does show men are starting to become active.

Incidentally, here's an article by a feminist who not only describes how the feminist industry deliberately implicates all men in domestic abuse and rape but also refers to the industry as an "Industry".

http://eminism.org/readings/pdf-rdg/disloyal.pdf

right, the guys in ladybroker's op are making a positive step forward for men. too funny, jim

I'm not a member of any woman's group. I have found that the leadership, as in most groups, are the radicals. They talk the loudest and get most of the coverage. I do work with the other feminists when issues come up and actions need to be taken. Many are spontaneous. We had a wonderful example here in Texas recently when the legislature was trying to further take away women's rights to control their own bodies. I have had trouble with the radicals and I fight them when they are wrong. I do not lump all men together any more than you should lump all feminists together. I am not fighting for women only but for all who need the help. I know that the old views of gender roles and such have hurt men as well as women, gays as well as straights. That's why we should be working together. I don't see that happening any time soon because of the very bs evident on this thread and others. You say I'm the one throwing the bs and I say it is you.

I get sick and tired of these members of the "women are martyrs" industry blaming "men"

There is no such thing as a "culture of rape"

if someone we to accuse women of being husband beaters the way men are accused of it the feminist industry would go berserk.

these women's groups constantly send forth martyrdom barrages

anybody who doesn't toe the party line as dictated by the "women as victims" industry receives the kind of bitter, ill considered ridicule spewed

The women as victim industry is violently opposed to anything that they perceive could reduce the funding

the women as victim industry's propensity for blaming all men/It seems most women and some men fall for it.

Hey! By all mean, put on your micro mini and skimpiest top and go parading. See what happens. I agree you have every right to do it. I agree it's not your fault if you get raped. Getting hit by a car when you don't look both ways at a cross walk before stepping into the street isn't your fault either, but I've met smarter stumps if you do it.

tell your industry to shut the fuck up, quit blaming all men for everything

Because of the industry whining

No matter what they say the woman can screech "sexual harassment" and the guy loses his job.

Typical feminazi bull shit!

WTF??? Seems pretty clear that "men as victims industry" is thriving, what with all this screeching and whining about "feminists".

What I am trying to say(badly) is that I think it is harder for men to fight for things like shelters because of the perceptions as stated in the article jim posted which makes them reluctant and due to their smaller numbers (I think, but not sure).

Can you imagine what the US public would do to men who came forward claiming abuse? Think of how they already speak of, and treat, gay men.

WTF??? Seems pretty clear that "men as victims industry" is thriving, what with all this screeching and whining about "feminists".

Unlike the feminist industry, I don't make a dime off my comments nor do I have a vested interest in ensuring the discrimination continues.

Certainly no harder than it has been in the past (and even now a lot of times) for women reporting rape.

Jim, you have said several of us on here are part of the industry, or at best brainwashed by the industry. None of us are. Chaos provided evidence that you are part of the "men as victims industry" or at least brainwashed by them. Seems like an assessment equally as valid as your bs.

Agreed.

Can you imagine what the US public would do to men who came forward claiming abuse? Think of how they already speak of, and treat, gay men

Maybe this link will answer your question. Those who aren't arrested "since only men commit domestic violence", get laughed at, treated derisively or just plain not believed. The one thing they don't get is services since the U.S. government doesn't believe it exists.

http://www.saveservices.org/pdf/SAVE-VA ... -Males.pdf

Thanks jim. That's eye-opening and explains it much better than I could.

yep, much like women reporting rape have been treated. Women have had to work hard to change that and there's still a lot of work needed. Men are not to be denied the help. It's unconstitutional to give the help to only women. This has to be fought all the way to the supreme court if necessary. Just whining and not reporting it gets the guys no where. Women had to fight for what they have. Men have to fight for what they need. Unfortunate, but necessary. The terrible feminists have paved the way. It's your turn guys. Reporting it shows no weakness. Not reporting it and not fighting for your rights does.

jim: ".....since the U.S. government doesn't believe it exists."

how does the Canadian govt feel?

Reporting it shows no weakness. Not reporting it and not fighting for your rights does.


Damned if you do (by society's perception/ridicule), damned if you don't? Do you understand the psychological effects of abuse and why any abused person wouldn't believe that? Would you call a woman who doesn't report it or fight for rights weak or would you understand that she is (for want of a better word) downtrodden?

I've been psychologically abused. Had that entailed physical abuse, I just don't think I would have reported it, since I already thought that "it must be my fault" somehow. When a person is abused by one that they love, it does something to that person's ability to think logically. I honestly don't know exactly how to say all of this, since it's hard for me to explain my previous situation. I just know that it isn't that simple.

Abused women had other women who fought for their rights. Mothers, sisters, and friends. Women in power. Advocates. Men need other men to do that, and as I explained before it is hard for them since they, too, think that abused men are "weak". When one is abused, one feels powerless.

Up here it would be a provincial responsibility but the answer is the same. There's the occasional tsk,tsking and something should be done but it just doesn't happen. Alberta gives some lip service to it in the sense that they opened two beds in a facility to be used by abused men. The beds were located in Strathmore, a tiny little town, about 80 miles east of Calgary.

I understand very well the psychological effects of abuse, roseanne. I wouldn't be arguing this if I didn't. Yes, abused women have had advocates. Those advocates could have done nothing if not for the brave women who came forward, tolerated the bs, lost their cases, even died getting this issue seen for the problem it is. One of the things the feminists worked on and work on is empowering women. Very difficult to do when even today, people like jim name call and whimper everytime a woman mentions the problems in an op. We have had to fight the old bs that says it's the woman's fault if she is raped or abused. We have had to fight the why doesn't she just leave. We have had to work with the women to make them see it is not their fault. We have had to work with them to see that they can't just let it continue with them or someone else. We have had to show them that the only way things will change is if they report the abusers and we get stronger laws against them. They can help change things. They need to be lifted from downtrodden, feeling guilty and feeling powerless. No woman deserves to be raped or abused.

No man deserves that either. So those first men need to fight, take any unfairness in services to court. They need to risk the humiliation etc that women did and do. Yes, they need men to advocate for them. They won't get that until they fight for it. Perhaps if people like jim would use his energy fighting for change instead of whining and attacking feminists, changes would happen faster. However, with his views on rape, it appears to me he is more on the other side which perpetuates the very myths that keep abused men silent. Maybe it's what they wear that gets them raped and abused.

No man deserves that either. So those first men need to fight, take any unfairness in services to court. They need to risk the humiliation etc that women did and do. Yes, they need men to advocate for them. They won't get that until they fight for it. Perhaps if people like jim would use his energy fighting for change instead of whining and attacking feminists, changes would happen faster. However, with his views on rape, it appears to me he is more on the other side which perpetuates the very myths that keep abused men silent. Maybe it's what they wear that gets them raped and abused.

Are there any clichés you missed?