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PostPosted: 01/12/14 10:54 am • # 26 
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From what i understand though, it's the thinking and problems solving that the kids are stinking up the room in. At least at our school.


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PostPosted: 01/12/14 11:03 am • # 27 
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queenoftheuniverse wrote:
Any good math teacher knows that you need a few tricks up your sleeve and there is no single way to teach math. You follow the curriculum and start with the method in the approved text or materials. Then, when someone doesn't understand that, you think of other ways to present the concept and other methods to solve the problem until the little light goes off. Sometimes I can't help my daughter with her homework because I can't grasp the method they are using and she can't grasp the method I would use but we get the same answers and we both understand what we are doing.
The problem starts when a teacher asks you to show your computations and then they mark it incorrect because you did not use the method that is being taught by the text. This kills kids' understanding of the concepts and stifles their problem solving abilities. Let teachers teach and let kids learn and stop with all the standardization, my way or the highway, everyone needs to do and know the same thing BS.


my sentiments precisely.


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PostPosted: 01/12/14 11:08 am • # 28 
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roseanne wrote:
As an example Cattleman, once upon a time we learned multiplication by memorization of the "times tables", usually for the numbers 1-12. It works well! I always had a mental block for the 7's for some reason. :g Still do. I have to think about it, but I can whiz through the others without thinking.

We took home a little booklet with times tables and were tested on so many each week.

I'm not sure about the other aspects of basic math or how they are taught now. Maybe someone who's had a child in the k-3 grades recently could explain.


7's and 12's are hard because there is no pattern for them. the other numbers, most particularly 2, 4, 5, 9, 10, and 11 are quite easy when you recognize the pattern. and since those numbers constitute half of the other numbers, you can get half of them by reversing the digits. my son always had the most trouble with 7's and 12's. so did i, when i was his age.


Last edited by macroscopic on 01/12/14 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 01/12/14 11:13 am • # 29 
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kathyk1024 wrote:
There are other answers to that question. Six vans and a car taking the other two.

There is no way around learning to add and multiply.


that is what i call "creative reasoning".
another answer is each bus takes seven, and the last takes 8, and 6 kids can sleep on the bench seats.


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PostPosted: 01/12/14 11:25 am • # 30 
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queenoftheuniverse wrote:
Back to rote memorization of math facts: if you had trouble memorizing them didn't your teacher clue you in on the tricks- every multiple of 10 ends in zero, multiples of 11 go 11,22,33 etc, multiples of nine go up one down one 09, 18,27,36, practice counting by 5s, practice counting by 2s, chisen bop- there are many ways to learn how to multiply, add, divide rapidly without memorizing tables. For nines you can also multiply by 10 then subtract the number, take a percent by putting a decimal point, by the time they are 12 many girls can figure a 10,15,20, 25 percent discount in their heads if they like to shop.

I loved teaching math. There are so many things you can do and its really exciting to see kids and adults "get it". My husband cracks up when my daughter asks me to factor a polynomial and I do it without even thinking.

I agree with most everything Kathy says above. Thinking is the problem, not memorization and drills.


it really is about thought: about levels of abstraction and problem solving. it is about making sense of the world- about how things relate to one another. i am not trying to be profound, but that really is how i think of math. it is an organizational method. but at a certain point, after you have the basic tools, learning shortcuts and developing strategies for math is the next level.

we had this discussion either on this board or another- but multiplication and division are either something you need to do on a calculator, or something you can mostly do in your head, depending on how you think. if you are trying to compute gas mileage (US units for now), you just got 11.8 gallons, and drove 276 miles. you can whip out the calculator, but it is really not terribly hard to do a 3 x 3 digit math problem in your head. but it takes strategies to do it.

the first part of the strategy is to know the goal. mileage is kinda meaningless if you can't get to at least two units, preferably three. so, if you approximate, it has to be on one of the two halves of the division, and only the last digit. in this case, if you say that the problem is 276/12, then you can "fudge" it later, by adding 2% (a good approximation) to the mileage.

2+7+6 is 15, so the numerator is divisible by 3, and that result is 92. the divisor then becomes 4. now divide both by 4, and you get 23. 2% of 23 is 0.46. but you need to round that down, because the "fudge" is actually less than 2%, not over. so the answer is 23.4

i don't know if that is right, or not. but doing that sort of thing in the head keeps you sharp. and it is all based on strategies, knowing what you have, what you know, and what you want.


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PostPosted: 01/12/14 11:50 am • # 31 
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Cattleman wrote:
No problem with that GAT.
But its equally important for them to know the difference between approximation and precision.


or, to use the terms that they used in engineering school: accuracy -vs- precision.


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PostPosted: 01/12/14 12:16 pm • # 32 
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11.8 ~ 12
12*12=144
2*144=288=24*12
288-276=12
23*12=276
Estimate ~23 miles per gallon
That's how my german brain gets the estimate in a few seconds.
(12*12=144 >known result since age 6 or 7
2*144=288 >simple doubling each digit
288-276 >comparing selected digits)


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PostPosted: 01/12/14 2:22 pm • # 33 
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12 is easy. Just multiply by 10 and then add twice the number.


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PostPosted: 01/12/14 7:53 pm • # 34 
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jabra2 wrote:
11.8 ~ 12
12*12=144
2*144=288=24*12
288-276=12
23*12=276
Estimate ~23 miles per gallon
That's how my german brain gets the estimate in a few seconds.
(12*12=144 >known result since age 6 or 7
2*144=288 >simple doubling each digit
288-276 >comparing selected digits)


that's really good, jab.


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PostPosted: 01/12/14 7:55 pm • # 35 
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Cattleman wrote:
12 is easy. Just multiply by 10 and then add twice the number.


i think they are all easy for that reason. you can break it into addition using the distributive property.

if you know your 5's and 11's, you know your 16's.
if you know your 9's and 10's, you know your 19's.

you can use subtraction too, for the harder ones......just have be clever in how you approach problems.


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PostPosted: 01/12/14 8:15 pm • # 36 
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ie. You have to understand how numbers work.


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PostPosted: 01/13/14 8:21 am • # 37 
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Most of the time, as long as our kiddo can show the work and arrive at the correct answer, she can go about it any way she wants to.

Obviously, now that she's doing algebra there are fewer options.


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