The type of people Karl Rove recruited to the party when helping Bush get elected made this happen. By appealing to the deeply religious , he was recruiting a population that was already trusting one, unscientific, unreliable source that was going to keep them safe from the reality of the world.It's nearly impossible to undo it. The only hope is for the young, who are generally less religious and more religiously diverse, to participate fully in the democratic process.

Self-identification is always a problem gramps. I mean, if I were asked if I was "liberal" or "conservative" my truthful response would be "neither and both".

Its why most "attitude" type questionaires annoy me - none of the allowed responses fit my view at all.

(of course it could be that I'm just naturally "irascible" )

Simple question, then.

Should all men be equal before the law?
If one answers "yes", is one a liberal or a conservative?

GREAT question, oskar! ~ while there are always exceptions, my answer would be "liberal" or even better "progressive" because we [at least most of us] don't look for excuses and ways to disenfranchise others ~

Sooz

And yet, as soon as somebody wants to change such a law and one refuses, one has now become a conservative.

(of course it could be that I'm just naturally "irascible" )

S'ok, CM. I'm a curmudgeon.

It would depend on the proposed change ~ and people DO change their minds, often based in personal experiences ~ life is fluid, not static ~

I get the point you're making ~ but I see a definite/unmissable difference in how the two main political ideologies think ~

Sooz

I get the point you're making ~ but I see a definite/unmissable difference in how the two main political ideologies think ~

Probably because Republicans are not really "conservatives" and Democrats aren't really "liberals"... those terms being used in the modern sense.

IMO, the Democrats have become centrist/small "c" conservative and the Republicans have become radically right wing obstructionists.

I agree with that ~ and that's why I think of myself as a progressive, which I see as more truly liberal than most of today's liberals and definitely more truly liberal than most of today's Dems ~

Sooz

Simple question, then.

Should all men be equal before the law?
If one answers "yes", is one a liberal or a conservative?

Yes! Either or neither.

I get the point you're making ~ but I see a definite/unmissable difference in how the two main political ideologies think ~


There's two main parties in the US. But there's a lot more than two main ideologies. The distinction sooz makes between "liberal" and "progressive" makes that clear.

And once you move outside the US ........

Oh heck, then I'm a pure bred Willy Brandt socialist. But he's dead by now and there's nobody in sight following in his footsteps. A dieing breed.

Dying, Jab!

I swear, one day I'll tape a note to my monitor just for that one word. I don't know any way to remember the correct spelling.

i think it goes a bit deeper than that. are you familiar with the work of Leo Strauss?

either. but a conservative views this as a trivial statement. in other words, he thinks that all men are created equal and therefore he needs no government to ensure that equality. a liberal will find fault in that argument, in that people are complex creatures, often engaged in either rational or irrational selfish behavior that will make equality an enforcement aspect for a civil society.

confused yet?

confused yet?

I'm not.

good man.

You'd have to ask my wife.

Oh the irony!!!!

but a conservative views this as a trivial statement. in other words, he thinks that all men are created equal and therefore he needs no government to ensure that equality.
That could be straight from John Locke - generally regarded as one of the major founders of modern Liberalism.

a liberal will find fault in that argument, in that people are complex creatures, often engaged in either rational or irrational selfish behavior that will make equality an enforcement aspect for a civil society.
And that could well be a response from Edmund Burke - regarded as the 'father" of modern Conservatism.

Go figure!

Now y'all know why I tend to ignore what they (politicians) say and pay attention to what they do.

Except that what politicians do is at least partly a product of what they think ....

They think?

Isn't your wife a politician Oskar????

Of course, there's thinking and Thinking.

More like an "advocate" trying to change the system from the inside.