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PostPosted: 12/20/14 6:48 pm • # 1 
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More killings are NOT the answer ~ :g ~ Sooz

BREAKING: Two police officers shot and killed ‘execution style’ in Brooklyn
Reuters | 20 Dec 2014 at 16:38 ET

NEW YORK (Reuters) – A gunman fatally shot two New York police officers as they sat in their squad car on Saturday and then killed himself, the New York Times reported, in the first deaths of police officers by gunfire in the city in three years.

The officers were patrolling in the Bedford-Stuyvesant section of Brooklyn. NYPD Deputy Chief Kim Royster said it appeared the shots struck them in the upper body, the newspaper said.

The gunman opened fire on the officers from the patrol car’s passenger side and fled into a nearby subway station. The man then died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head, the Times quoted Royster as saying.

A police spokesman could not confirm the newspaper account, but he said the officers had been taken to Brooklyn’s Woodhull Medical Center and said their conditions were unknown.

The spokesman identified the shooter as a 28-year-old man and said he had been taken to Brooklyn Hospital Center. A weapon has been recovered, he said.

New York police have come under intense pressure in recent weeks, with protests erupting after a grand jury declined to charge an officer involved in the chokehold death of an unarmed black man, Eric Garner.

It was not immediately known if the case played a role in the shootings.

Mike Isaac, a neighborhood resident, told CNN the area was a largely African American neighborhood and had been tense since the protests over Garner’s death. “The mood is pretty freaked out,” he said.

The grand jury’s decision this month on the officer involved in Garner’s death followed widespread protests over a grand jury decision last month not to indict a police officer who shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in Ferguson, Missouri.

The officers in both cases were white and the incidents put a spotlight on police treatment of minorities.

The Rev. Al Sharpton, a New York civil rights leader who has supported the families of Brown and Garner, said he was outraged by the officers’ killings, if they were related to the men’s deaths.

“Any use of the names of Eric Garner and Michael Brown, in connection with any violence or killing of police, is reprehensible and against the pursuit of justice in both cases,” he said in a statement.

In Los Angeles, Urban Policy Roundtable President Earl Ofari Hutchinson and other civil rights leaders also condemned the shootings in a statement.

Television footage showed the area around Saturday’s shooting in Brooklyn taped off by police. The subway line where the self-inflicted shooting took place was shut down.

The Times said the last fatal shooting of a New York City police officer was in 2011.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation reported last month that 76 law enforcement officers in the United States died last year while on duty, including 27 during criminal acts, a sharp drop from 2012.

(Reporting by Ian Simpson and Jonathan Allen; editing by G Crosse, Gunna Dickson and Frances Kerry)

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/breaking-two-police-officers-shot-execution-style-in-brooklyn-both-critically-injured/g


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PostPosted: 12/20/14 9:15 pm • # 2 
There are no words.


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 12:47 am • # 3 
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I posted this over at the other place this morning before this shooting came to light but it seems to apply here too:

I guess what I wonder about with all this Fergusson and other places hulabaloo is how many cops are going to wind-up dead or injured because they now hesitate at a crucial moment. Black guys, whites guys and kids do shoot cops on a regular basis. The situation we are putting them in is a Hobbs choice between their lives and the potential for a destroyed career and possible prison at the hands of a vindictive public. The physical evidence developed by the FBI during their investigation supported the cop's version of the story to a greater degree than any of the conjecture put forward later by people who weren't even there.


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 4:26 am • # 4 
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jimwilliam wrote:
I posted this over at the other place this morning before this shooting came to light but it seems to apply here too:

I guess what I wonder about with all this Fergusson and other places hulabaloo is how many cops are going to wind-up dead or injured because they now hesitate at a crucial moment. Black guys, whites guys and kids do shoot cops on a regular basis. The situation we are putting them in is a Hobbs choice between their lives and the potential for a destroyed career and possible prison at the hands of a vindictive public. The physical evidence developed by the FBI during their investigation supported the cop's version of the story to a greater degree than any of the conjecture put forward later by people who weren't even there.


If white cops and black cops got the same treatment that argument might be considered, but...


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 4:47 am • # 5 
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Senseless murders of NYPD officers stain a struggle for social justice: opinion


My heart breaks for New York City tonight.

NYPD officers Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu had their lives stolen from them. Ismaaiyl Brinsley allegedly approached their marked police car and opened fire before later turning the gun on himself.

His Instagram account told the story: "I'm putting wings on pigs today. They take 1 of ours, let's take 2 of theirs" - vengeance for the death of New York's Eric Garner, who died after an officer's use of an illegal chokehold.

According to authorities, Brinsley shot and wounded his girlfriend earlier in the day. Clearly, Brinsley was a disturbed man. But sadly, the narrative won't be of an erratic, lone gunman, singling out New York's finest. It will be one of violent, evil retaliation, furthering the divide of a distrustful community and the officers sworn to protect it.

Brinsley's perverted brand of justice cannot be justified. Confronting injustice with more injustice just breeds more sorrow, more pain and more hate. My heart breaks for New Yorkers who now live in fear of further retaliation.

My heart breaks for the protesters, whose diligence was nearly unraveled by Brinsley's heinous actions. Peaceful protests, from New York last weekend to those in Birmingham just Friday, aimed to bring awareness to injustices that have plagued minority communities for generations. Those demonstrations have now been tainted, albeit unfairly, by the actions of a disturbed individual.

Protesters have attempted to mirror the success of the civil rights movement, where demonstrators were characterized by their unflappable strength. When civil-rights foot soldiers marched through Birmingham's streets - their skin torn by high-pressure water hoses, their garments shredded by police dogs - they kept their heads high but their anger concealed. No insult nor police baton could break them.

They did not fight back. That was their strength.

They refused to reduce themselves to the same barbarism of their accusers. That made them heroes. My heart breaks for our forefathers, those unbreakable civil-rights icons who taught us to be better than this.

Most of all, my heart breaks for the families of officers Ramos and Liu, victims of the same injustice protesters have rallied against since Garner's death. They did not deserve to endure such a grave loss.

Brinsley's selfish acts should not define a movement for change but I worry they will. His actions should be condemned, but they should not characterize scores of protesters who are seeking justice the right way. Still, protesters now face a new challenge in their struggle - overcoming the stain of an unconscionable act.

New Yorkers, the NYPD, and protesters have all suffered losses. I hope they realize the importance of addressing all these injustices with a united front.

More violence will only bring more division.

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/201 ... cart_river


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 4:56 am • # 6 
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Excellent op-ed, roseanne.


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 6:14 am • # 7 
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I thought it was excellent too, oskar. By a Southern black man, no less.


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 6:18 am • # 8 
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I'm wondering if the entire grand jury system shouldn't be replaced by some type of legal committee (i.e. a panel of judges).

BTW, the author's race never occurred to me.


Last edited by Anonymous on 12/21/14 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 12/21/14 6:35 am • # 9 
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Why are "grand juries" even necessary? We seem to do ok without them.


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 7:10 am • # 10 
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Quote:
BTW, the author's race never occurred to me.


I didn't to me either, until after I read it, then went to copy the title and saw his picture. I do think it's noteworthy, considering what's going on. So many people in the US assume a black man will support, or at least not blame, another black man no matter what he has done. As a matter of fact, I think the rest of the world expects that from American blacks. The same way so many think all Muslims are terrorists and all Mosques are havens of terrorist activities.....


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 8:32 am • # 11 
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Cattleman wrote:
Why are "grand juries" even necessary? We seem to do ok without them.

The US is a country of over 300million people, which translates into more crime than most other countries ~ the grand jury [allegedly] serves to screen cases to determine if there is enough hard evidence to get a conviction ~ the grand jury's ONLY job is to determine if there is enough evidence to take the case to trial ~ that, in turn, leaves the prosecutors with a lot [too much?] discretion in what is or is not presented to the grand jury ~

While the US Constitution requires a grand jury, that clause was written [I think] when private parties were allowed to sue indiscriminately ~ today it is used primarily to pre-screen criminal cases ~ it serves as a preliminary hearing ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 11:18 am • # 12 
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From today's Daily Beast "Cheat Sheet" ~ :g ~ Sooz

3 hours ago
NYPD Killer Shot Girlfriend Hours Before

The man who ambushed two NYPD officers and killed them execution-style shot his girlfriend hours before his Brooklyn attack, officials said. Ismaaiyl Brinsley, 28, shot and wounded his girlfriend in Maryland around 5:45 a.m. before heading to Brooklyn. Baltimore police tried to warn NYPD about Brinsley before the attack, but the alert they faxed apparently arrived too late, according to officials. Brinsley posted anti-police message on social media platforms prior to the brutal attack. "I’m Putting Wings On Pigs Today. They Take 1 Of Ours...Let’s Take 2 of Theirs,” he posted on Instagram, while also mentioning Eric Garner and Michael Brown. He also posted, "I Always Wanted To Be Known For Doing Something Right” he posted on Facebook.

President Obama denounced the ambush. Late Saturday night, Obama condemned the “murder of two police officers in New York City.” Acknowledging the anti-cop sentiments following the grand jury decisions not to indict the cops who killed Brown or Garner, Obama praised police, saying they “deserve our respect and gratitude every single day.” Michael Brown's family also denounced the ambush. "We must work together to bring peace to our communities. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the officers' families during this incredibly difficult time,” the family said in a statement.

Read it at DNA Info››

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/12/21/sony-lawyer-the-interview-will-screen.html


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 1:12 pm • # 13 
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I know roughly what Grand Juries do sooz, I just don't see the need for them. I can't see how population or crime rates actually effect that. If anything they just add an unnecessary step in an already over-complicated judicial process.

Shouldn't it be up to the prosecutors to decide if there is a case or not?


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 1:16 pm • # 14 
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Cattleman wrote:
I know roughly what Grand Juries do sooz, I just don't see the need for them. I can't see how population or crime rates actually effect that. If anything they just add an unnecessary step in an already over-complicated judicial process.

Shouldn't it be up to the prosecutors to decide if there is a case or not?

Does Oz have preliminary hearings? We do in Canada.


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 1:23 pm • # 15 
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Not that I know of Oskar. I've never heard of anything like that.


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 1:25 pm • # 16 
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Cattleman wrote:
Not that I know of Oskar. I've never heard of anything like that.


Here, an accused can plead guilty right away or can opt to go to trial at a preliminary hearing.


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 1:40 pm • # 17 
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There could be something like that. Still its nothing like a Grand Jury. The decision to prosecute is made by The Director(s) of Public Prosecutions and staff - career Public Service positions.


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 1:44 pm • # 18 
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Cattleman wrote:
I know roughly what Grand Juries do sooz, I just don't see the need for them. I can't see how population or crime rates actually effect that. If anything they just add an unnecessary step in an already over-complicated judicial process.

Shouldn't it be up to the prosecutors to decide if there is a case or not?

There are many cases where police and prosecutors know a crime has been committed and want to prosecute but they can't produce evidence to sustain the case ~ prosecutors love to prosecute but hate to lose ~ the grand jury [or preliminary hearing] gives the prosecutors a chance to expose some of their evidence to see if that evidence is strong enough for the grand jurors to vote indictment to bring it to trial ~ you'd be surprised how many grand juries vote not to indict [although generally not in death cases] ... mostly in cases relying on circumstantial evidence ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 2:22 pm • # 19 
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Quote:
The decision to prosecute is made by The Director(s) of Public Prosecutions and staff - career Public Service positions.


Appointed or elected? Do you mean by "career" that it's a lifetime job? If so, I can see a lot of room for corruption and bribery. That's why I ask.


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 2:49 pm • # 20 
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Thanks sooz, but I think that makes my case. Why have a trial run at a trial?


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 2:57 pm • # 21 
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They are appointed Rose, but there aren't any 'lifetime positions" in our public service anymore.

There is always a possibility of corruption, but I would think considerably less so than a situation where major legal officers are elected. Isn't catering to your electoral support by undermining the just character of judicial proceedings (which seems to have been done in this case) a very significant kind of corruption?


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 3:09 pm • # 22 
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I think most of our judicial proceedings are now corrupt. Appointed (partisan) judges in particular. But, you are right. Those elected (judges, prosecutors) are not much more than political mouthpieces who talk out of both sides of their mouths. Either way, you get skewed representation.

As with everything, there are honest ones, but I think that number has shrunk in the last few decades.


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 3:35 pm • # 23 
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That seems to be the case Rose, but the occasionally optimistic side of me suggests that the apparently increasing level of corruption could well be due to increasing "outing" of corrupt officials. Invisible corruption has become more visible.

That could partly a product of my personal experience. I knew a guy who rose rapidly from a kitchen boy through the ranks to become our local member and the then the speaker of our state Government. And I knew he was thoroughly corrupt from day one. In the process he became associated with a loose group of corrupt police, businessmen and other politicians and became very rich in the process. We knew about it, but there was very little we could do about it.

Due to the activities of some of his confederate and an ICAC investigation the whole network has started to unravel and I'm looking forward to the day his ass gets thrown in jail.

I think there's some hope.


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 3:54 pm • # 24 
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WTF is wrong with people? ~ Giuliani [remember that POS?] is blaming Obama for telling everyone to "hate the police" ~ the prez of the NY police union is blaming DeBlasio for encouraging protesters against the police and the protesters ~ Fox News is blaming Obama and black leaders for creating an anti-police environment ~ Lindsay Graham [yes, Lindsay Graham] is the only one so far saying he blames the SHOOTER ~

The death of the two police officers was tragic ~ so were the deaths of the black teenagers and black men ~ one does NOT cancel the other ~ anyone who is making this a "political" issue is despicable in my book ~

Sooz


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PostPosted: 12/21/14 4:04 pm • # 25 
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roseanne wrote:
I think most of our judicial proceedings are now corrupt. Appointed (partisan) judges in particular. But, you are right. Those elected (judges, prosecutors) are not much more than political mouthpieces who talk out of both sides of their mouths. Either way, you get skewed representation.

As with everything, there are honest ones, but I think that number has shrunk in the last few decades.


I forgot to add to my post: That is why a grand jury is needed. Average citizens who can decide the merits of a case with (hopefully) no prejudice or political pressure.


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