I agree, Sooz.

The reason the U.S. receives so much criticism - besides from being a so-called superpower - is because we so often get involved. We get involved in part because we have the ability to do so.

There have been times when we probably should not have and times when we probably should have done it differently, but also times when we did something good.

I get a bit bothered by criticism of the U.S. when it's too general. Point out something specific and I may even agree (for example the Iraq war), but is the U.S. - and it's citizens - truly any worse that other nations?

Good that he wasn't asked to find Iran or Teheran (that's how we spell it ) on a map.
Schieffer probably couldn't find a map of a flat earth on short notice.

Back to the old "every people has the politicians they deserve".

The "not all of us agree" sounds suspiciously like what Cotton was saying ....

Cotton said not all of us agree? Teheran's answer ought to have been "Well Duhhhh!!"

It's not like Khomeni et al were convinced that every Congressman and Senator have sat nodding in agreement with Obama's every utterance, and were automatically on board with whatever agreement the President might make. Who the hell was Cotton talking to? He was just writing an unnecessarily wordy "F You" to the president, and cc'ing the US electorate. And, as a p.s., a little note at the bottom saying to Iran and the world, "This President doesn't actually have any power anyway, so, you know, whatever."

Cotton has set a terrible precedent. Arrogant little bastard.

They don't seem to give a damn, because there is no accountability anymore. After all the things Republicans have done during Obama's presidency, they won a majority.

Maybe they see it as the voters saying; Go ahead, threaten to shut down the government. Go ahead, say Obama doesn't love America. Go ahead, undermine the President however you can.

I don't think the majority of voters see it that way, but I can't help but think some of these Republicans do.

Yes there has been criticism of those that signed the letter, but will they in any way be held accountable?

Not much is going to happen now, but we'll see if "the letter" has any impact on upcoming elections.

John, I'm not sure what can be done with the Idiot 47 ~ the Logan Act itself is likely unconstitutional, and their action apparently doesn't reach the base level of either sedition or treason ~ that's 3 strikes ~ I do confess I'm surprised and not happy that there is not a law or regulation or something to avoid episodes like this ~

I loved that Obama's response was to be embarrassed for the Idiot 47 and that the Iranian minister basically schooled them on their misreading of the Constitution and US law ~ all of the P5+1 nations are both pissed off and laughing at them as well ~ maybe the cruelest cut from Cotton's perspective is how many of the Idiot 47 are now admitting the letter was "not a good idea" or claiming they didn't read it before signing ... iow, trying to distance themselves from this idiocy ~ most telling is that many of them are beholden to AIPAC or the Emergency Committee for Israel for BIG contributions ~ Cotton himself is known to have accepted something in the neighborhood of $1million ~

CM, everyone is allowed to agree or disagree ~ but, bottom line: international agreements are within the authority of the Executive Branch ~ I believe it is common to ask the Senate to "ratify" an agreement, but there are apparently many many many agreements still in place without ratification ~ it is no more and no less legal with or without ratification ~

Sooz

There is a silver lining, though.
It makes our current Foreign Affairs crowd look passably intelligent.

I wasn't supporting Cotton sooz.

But I'm not sure whether an unratified treaty has the force of law.

In any case, the US ignores them whenever it suits. I mean, look what they've done to the Geneva Convention.

Y'all elected your pols the same way we did. That's part of citizenship. We the people are responsible. We've been over this repeatedly and I've yet to fins a USian who feels any sense of responsibility for the people they elect.

Please accept that you've found one.

Long ago, I posted (I believe it was on a different site) about just such responsibility for our government.

I don't remember exactly what I wrote, but it was something about how we all share some responsibility for what happens in and what is done by our nation.

Some argued with me. Maybe some think that, for example, if they didn't vote for Obama they bear no responsibility for what happens during his presidency.

I agree that "We the people are responsible".

And I join John as the second you've found, oskar ~ I feel it's my civic responsibility to vote, and I have voted in every election, city/state/federal, since I've been of age to vote ~ and I do take responsibility for my personal votes, if/when the need arises ~ and I'm willing to bet others here in VoC and millions of others nationally feel the same way I do ~

Sooz

This si something I've said repeatedly over the years and it is the first time I've found any agreement.
If you remember the last time this came up it was over the difference between responsibility and blame.

and I do take responsibility for my personal votes

Is that the extent of your responsibility sooz? It seems to me that John is saying more than that.

but is the U.S. - and it's citizens - truly any worse that other nations?

Nope. And that's the point. The US, and many USians, think they are truly "better" than other nations. Hence the constant criticism. We're tired of hearing that nonsense.

The reason the U.S. receives so much criticism - besides from being a so-called superpower - is because we so often get involved. We get involved in part because we have the ability to do so.

That's not the reason, John. The reason is that you are so arrogant about it. There's all this bull crap about "American Exceptionalism", the "Shining City on the Hill" and how people "hate you for your freedoms". It's how you insist other countries follow your lead but absolutely refuse to follow anyone else's. It's your outright paranoia and belligerence. It's how you think every other country owes you a living or it "threatens American security" like this latest regurgitation about Venezuela. It's your bullying tactics and how you threaten war at the drop of a hat. It's how you think you are the only country in the world that helps out and gets involved when, in reality, you give less in percentage terms than just about any but the smallest countries.

Tell me something, John. Without googling it. Did any countries come to America's aid after Katrina. How much do you recall reading in the American press about that aid? Did America ever say thank you.

Good post, jim.
Sometimes more words are better in making a point.

You guys are conflating SOME Americans with all Americans ~

VoC is the last place you will find puffed-up egotism about the US ~ this is my home ~ always has been, always will be ~ there are many things I'm not happy about that this country is doing/has done ~ but I personally resent the constant/obsessive finding fault with everything ~ I will not stop posting things I'm pleased/proud of here ~ nor will I ever ask anyone to stop posting things they are pleased/proud of in their homelands ~

jim, yes, many countries offered aid to the US following Katrina ~ I was touched by the outpouring of help offered ~ I can find a list for you if you'd like ~

Sooz

FTR: International Response to Hurricane Katrina ~ and take special note that Canada is on the list ~

Sooz

International response to Hurricane Katrina

Another German Air Force cargo plane carrying several thousand military rations (MRE) was denied entry into US airspace since, according to US authorities, they were not certified BSE-free. This was disputed by German authorities, pointing out that they were BSE-free according to NATO rules, that US soldiers would eat them regularly during joint operations (e.g. Afghanistan) and that these meals fully complied to UN rules

Yes, we do hear a lot of blame but not as much admission of responsibility.


I guess in a way Cattleman is right. For example, if I'm disappointed in how my congressman voted, did I call or write him? Seems to me there is often more we citizens can do.


I don't blame you, but that kind of talk comes mostly from the far right. Not all of us USians think that way.

You guys are conflating SOME Americans with all Americans ~

Not at all. We're differentiating between US-the country and USians as individuals. It's rather obvious to me.

Not all of us USians think that way.
Absolutely. And it has been repeated ad nauseam. I'm not sure what we non-USians have to do to make that any clearer.

It might be "obvious" to you, oskar, but it is not obvious to me ~ nor to others apparently ~ perhaps adding the word "some" before "USians" would bolster your case ~

Sooz

I understand Jim, but as I've said, not all of us think that way.

Remember how Obama has been accused of "apologizing" for simply mentioning things we did wrong? You know how he's been accused of "not loving America"? That because he doesn't talk about "American Exceptionalism" the way the far-right sees it.

The complaint that you and Oskar have is with the far-right, not all of us. Some of us make the same criticisms.

To answer your question on Katrina, no - I don't remember any of that.

Obama jumped onto the USian exceptionalism bandwagon long ago in spite of recognizing some of the foolishness.