True - it's not just the pay scales or even that it's "hard work" but those jobs are somehow beneath them.

"White privilege" is not limited to the upper echelons ~

Sooz

Black lung disease is preferable.

Well, it wasn't all milk and honey in the US either Rose.

And I wasn't really thinking about picking tomatoes.

I'd put proper health care for everyone, and housing, and, education, and roads and forestation, and environmental monitoring, and ....... ahead of that.

I doubt there are many illegals working in coal mines.

That's my point. The black lung crowd voted for Trump. The Blankenship ilk will be back soonly and bigly.

There were a lot of unemployed buggy whip makers.

What I see happening with robots taking jobs... Japan is the most robotized country on the planet. They've had a stagnant economy for seemingly decades but they also have fairly robust social safety nets. What I see happening is simply a transition from a formal jobs based middle class to an entrepreneurial class where people don't have "jobs", they have clients and contracts. There is a movement underway among younger people to return to hand-making items, like clothing, furniture and even housing. Those skill can still be marketed, not necessarily out of a need to fill skilled labour placements, but as an option for a network of local economies. Barter becomes possible in such a scenario.

Governments don't like barter because it's not taxable.

When someone says that the underground economy is $X billion they're not just referring to the tradesman that works for cash and doesn't declare it. They're including the exchange of services between private individuals - think of someone doing their neighbor's taxes and, in turn, him plowing their driveway during the winter. In theory you could argue that both parties should regard this as paid employment and pay tax on whatever the normal commercial value of their labor would be.

I guess you missed my "sarcasm" sign about the tomatoes.

Regardless, I agree with all of that, but in order to employ people in those industries (weren't we talking about jobs?) they must first be educated. If we aren't talking about jobs, then I don't know where you're going with your posts. I'll bow out.

I got the sarcasm Rose, but I wasn't quite sure who it was directed at.

Of course we are talking about jobs. But for there to be reasonable jobs there has to be work that needs to be done - and money to pay for them. Thje money is there, and the work is there - its connecting the two that seems to be too difficult.

Education is a big part of it of course. Maybe we should be funding education properly - and that will involve employing more people - for a start.

Speaking of automation and a loss of jobs

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... e33681829/



On a separate note, they're also buying Popeyes Louisiana Kitchen.

And we're back to the education system where we continue to use the same structure we used to prepare people for factory work...

And there go more jobs ...

Wendy's plans self-ordering kiosks at 1,000 locations

Wendy's says it plans to install self-ordering kiosks at about 1,000 locations by the end of the year.

A typical location would have three kiosks, The Columbus Dispatch reported. Higher-volume restaurants will be given priority for the kiosks.

Wendy's chief information officer, David Trimm, said the kiosks are intended to appeal to younger customers and reduce labor costs. Kiosks also allow customers of the fast food giant to circumvent long lines during peak dining hours while increasing kitchen production.

Trim estimates the company will see a return on its investment in less than two years.

"They are looking to improve their automation and their labor costs, and this is a good way to do it," said Darren Tristano, vice president with Technomic, a food-service research and consulting firm. "They are also trying to enhance the customer experience. Younger customers prefer to use a kiosk."

Kiosks are also valued by the Dublin, Ohio-based company for their ability to provide data about customers.

"This move puts them at the forefront of the kiosk and tech movement," Tristano said.

Kiosks already have been installed at several central Ohio locations, where the company first tested the technology.

Customers will still be able to order at the counter for now, although Tristano predicts that mobile ordering and payment via smartphones will one day overtake self-ordering kiosks and cash registers.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-wendy ... ons-2017-2

In the scenario of a society that has near-completely robotized labor, barter shouldn't be taxable. Instead, tax the companies based on the number of human jobs replaced by a robot times the number of robots they have, and use that tax money for social services and a guaranteed annual income for all the human citizenry.

Just think, the entire population would not have to cuss and swear their way on their commute to a job they hate to pay for a lifestyle they can't afford.

I don't think some of these new things are working out too well for companies:

1. People really don't like these new electronic ordering kiosks McD's is using. It's slowed service to a crawl.

2. Real Canadian Superstore started these automated checkout stands (I know a lot of other chains have picked it up) and while they are quite popular I've noticed they've started advertising that their checkout stands are all manned, something that wasn't happening before the installed the automated checkouts.

3. Wal Mart seems to be encountering the same customer push back. They tried to force the issue by unmanning (demanning? dewomaning? whatever?) their first come first serve checkout complexes. Last night I noted about half the positions were filled again and there was a fair line-up.

4. Some of the companies I represented were into automated machinery in a big way. The big problem is if there is a breakdown or crash their whole production is down. They can just switch to other machines or even contract the work out. The same thing happens in retail outfits. If something happens to the computer system their whole store or chain is down. In the old days they would just break out the cash box and order pads.

First, define "jobs replaced" - how can you determine whether a robot replaced five people or fifty?

Second, define "robot" - is an iPad for ordering food at a table a robot? And what if that robot does several jobs - is that considered "one robot" or "many"?

That's a prize-winner.

Is that a "Made in China" sticker I'm seeing at the base of the first robot?

I wonder if, as a result of all this, good ole' USA, Japan will be resurrected. Legend has it that during the fifties and sixties there was a big "Buy America" campaign underway which was hurting Japanese exports. To combat the campaign a manufacturing town in Japan renamed itself USA so goods manufactured there could bear the title "Made in USA".

Clever.

Some of the companies I represented were into automated machinery in a big way. The big problem is if there is a breakdown or crash their whole production is down. They can just switch to other machines or even contract the work out. The same thing happens in retail outfits. If something happens to the computer system their whole store or chain is down. In the old days they would just break out the cash box and order pads.

I think that kind of problem is going to make some of the automation of existing work a lot more difficult than they appear on the surface. All those driving jobs for example.

Its one thing to design an automated vehicle which can navigate effectively through traffic, but quite another to design automated vehicles that will work effectively when most other vehicles are automated. If the "fail safe" system of individual vehicles is to stop then the potential for massive traffic jams is enormous.

Hackers are gonna have a blast.

CM's got a good point. Today's cars are highly computerized and anybody who drives in rush hour on a regular basis can attest to how often there are break downs. The thing is, when it's computers that are driving the cars it wouldn't take much for the results of little glitches to be fatal.

Fatal for whom? Other robots?